AMD Overclocking Guide

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Psychlone, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. Mrnjavi

    Mrnjavi New Member

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    Thanks for big answer... English is not my native language so I take more time to understand some words, otherwise topic is great

    My temp was writen not because i think my cpu is cool, it's because of lowest temp to start with Orthos, and stable windows because any other setting crashed vista at welcome screen ... I let Orthos run for 12 hours today and temp was 63° with no errors... I assume more is too much so I'll stay at that temp and cpu clock, it will be 50-55° in most apps and games...

    I can't do anything with my fsb setting, bios can boot more than 3.4 but Vista can't load, only with fsb 200... I figured it out, my ACC setting in bios is problem, when ACC is disabled Vista load with fsb 220 so far but with lower cpu multiplier. I can't catch my best ACC setting (Disabled, Auto, All Cores, Per Core from -12 to +12)... To many things to calculate, my previous X2 5000+ was so easier to OC...

    Thanks for help anyway :pc1:
     
  2. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Thanks Psychlone, THAT is the kinda information I needed to hear. I had no idea revision #'s mattered so much for memory as well.

    When you say you hand picked them, how exactly did you do that? Kinda impossible to hand pick them online right?

    I have no local store to go hand pick stuff out or I would do so.
     
  3. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Um, I can't find any d9 ic micron RAM...it's like they quit making it.

    Also, everything I have read keeps saying those chips die easier from overvoltage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  4. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Where can I buy some of the Micron sticks...I want to buy some TONIGHT but I can't find any :(

    I want 1066 2x2 GB or I guess even 4 x 1 GB is ok too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008

  5. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    I give up, there aren't any
     
  6. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Yeah - I have no way to do that either...conveniently. So, I made a trip to Las Vegas (about 3 1/2 hours) and went to the Fry's down there - I tell you, if they had rooms like the hotels, I'd stay THERE for vacations!!!! ;)

    Anyway, hand-picking can really only be done physically, and unless you know someone that works for an etailer, then your chances of getting what you want online are a little worse than chancing a good overclocking stepping CPU (because there's only so many CPU steppings, but there are a myriad of sticks of RAM and revisions) - I'd put it in the realm of >90% bad revision vs. <10% good (meaning that 10% or less chance you'd end up with a set of D9 sticks)

    Something that I was going to mention but got sidetracked on that tangent, is the difference between 2 banks and 4 banks being populated with RAM sticks and the difference between 1GB sticks and 2GB (or higher) sticks for overclocking.

    When you have 2 banks of your motherboard populated with sticks of RAM, it's easier for the on-die memory controller and the motherboard's bandwidth lanes to have access access the memory vs. having 3 or more banks populated - it's a bandwidth and *motherboard* latency issue.
    Same holds true with 1GB sticks vs. 2GB (or higher) sticks - your motherboard simply cannot access the RAM as quickly because the of latencies involved (now I'm not talking about RAM latency, I'm talking about the speed at which the memory controller and motherboard can access the RAM as read, write and copy functions are happening.) - More gigabytes on more sticks is unhealthy for any kind of killer overclock, that will usually be the main limiting factor right under the CPU's stepping...but where most of us don't use 8GB, or populate 4 banks at a time, then it's almost a non-issue, but prevalent nonetheless.

    The best overclocking will always be achieved with 1GB sticks (or 512 optimum) - and they would be spread across 2 channels rather than both in the same channel...this is what is referred to as "Dual-Channel Mode", and has *everything* to do with the latency of the motherboard. Not spreading those sticks across 2 separate channels INCREASES the latencies involved in any read/write/copy functions, as does higher GB sticks (single 4GB sticks)

    I'd *always* rather have 2 banks populated than have all 4 banks of my motherboard populated (i.e. 2 X 2GB sticks vs. 4 X 1GB sticks) - but there's a hitch...Vista (and presumably Windows 7) already need 4GB of RAM, but the higher the GB stick, the higher the latency involved - and this also holds true for DDR vs. DDR2 vs. DDR3.

    DDR2 1066 = 1066MHz with *general* latencies of 5,5,5,15
    DDR3 1066 = 1066MHz with *general* latencies of 7,7,7,20

    So, even though DDR3 sticks are rated at the same exact speed (in MHz) as the DDR2 sticks, the latencies are much higher. Now, DDR3 sticks have a much higher tolerance for higher MHz overclocking, so those DDR3 1066 sticks are capable of doing 1300MHz +, whereas the DDR2 sticks are going to top out at or below 1200MHz (generally speaking, of course)

    Part of another tangent here: This is why I say to INCREASE the latencies of your RAM when overclocking...higher latencies are more tolerant of higher overclocks, but you're not leaving those latencies there, you're going to tighten them back up.

    The entire point to RAM isn't the lowest latencies you can buy - it's *ALL* about the highest MHz you can achieve with the lowest latencies stable for that speed. - This is the most common mistake made by overclockers - veterans and newbies alike.
    So, remember - make your RAM purchase based on the guidelines posted above - specific revision number that are documented D9 ICs and physically hand-picked, keeping in mind the exact amount in GB of RAM that you need), and when you get 'em, put them into separate channels (bank 1 and bank 3 usually or bank 2 and bank 4, but some motherboards have separate channels right next to each other)
    Next step is going to be to LOOSEN (raise) all the latencies, followed by increasing the memory MHz by increasing the FSB (which runs up the HT & NB as well) and when you're done getting as much MHz as possible out of your sticks, TIGHTEN (lower) the latencies 1 at a time, rebooting in between each and every change until it won't pass POST, then raise that last value that caused the boot error and boot to Windows and test for stability.

    Like I said, I've got 2GB (2 X 1GB) sticks of Corsair XMS3202C2 v1.3 sticks that have been running at 583MHz for over 2 years - not because I'm God (although if you'd like to think so, I'm ok with that ;)) - but because I did the research and found the exact revision of the RAM I wanted, then followed the latency tweaking all the way through. That RAM runs 8400MB/s read, 8100MB/s write, and 7800MB/s copy - right on par with my DDR2 1066 sticks as far as bandwidth - and they're only pumping just over half the MHz that the DDR2 sticks are!! - Point is, with proper research and tweaking, anyone can achieve astounding overclocks with their RAM...and I don't consider a system fully overclocked until the latencies have been addressed in their entirety.

    Wow...I gotta write a book or something, I'm getting good at these long-winded posts!

    Peace out Brothers!

    Psychlone
     
  7. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Hey, I wish they did have motel rooms

    I have thought for some time that we need some kind of new technology. Seems as if we are on some kinda technological plateau or something.

    I do appreciate the long post and deailed explanation. My understanding was mostly correct with a lot of what you were explaining, but some things I didn't realize, such as the part about loosening then tightening again...really had no clue about that even after all I have read over the past couple years about OCing.

    Looks like I'll never be able to get any D9 stuff if it is that hard to find.

    I almost wish you hadn't mentioned it now lol.

    Ehhh well! :(
     
  8. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Whoa - it's not that hard to find - you just have to know what it is you want, and have the resources to get it, like walking into a Fry's or knowing someone that works for a business that can hand-pick them for you.

    Don't give up - there are LOTS of people that have D9s - that's the entire point behind the D9 Buyer's Guide thread as well as the RAMlist website - so people can find exactly what they want. And, who knows, some of the smaller, more obscure etailers may just cherrypick those sticks for you if you ask!

    Psychlone
     
  9. cupper24

    cupper24 Master Guru

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    Will they match online competitor's pricing??? ;)

    cupper24
     
  10. DannyBoy27

    DannyBoy27 Master Guru

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    I doubt it :)

    I just installed my new Asus mobo ( after waiting 2 weeks to get it shipped to the UK! ). Everything is running smoothly and I managed an instant 3.2Ghz on the 9950BE by just upping the vcore to 1.35 and the multi to 16.

    100% stable in Prime for 8 hours so im quite impressed by this board ( As i expected it to be - i researched it well! ). Im trying to push it stable to 3.4ghz using air ( Noctua NH-U12P at low rpms ). On 3.2Ghz its coming in at 25'C on idle and about 38'C at load on Prime which im quite happy with.

    Im trying 4.0 for the vcore on 3.4Ghz but im failing the 3rd core on Prime. Going to up it to +4 when i get home tonight. Is it worth going to + 6, all the rest + 2, if that still fails in Prime? Ill losen the Ram timings tonight to help the OC tonight too.

    My biggest problem at the moment is trying to read my RAID drives and my IDEs at the same time in XP. I have XP on my 150Gb Raptor, a 1000Tb Seagate for storage, and then 2 500Gb Seagates on RAID 0. The problem with the M3A79-T is that it just swaps to either the RAID controller or the standard IDE one. No middle ground. Ive tried multiple options in the raid controller. Other people claim to have resolved this but they installed the OS onto their RAID drives. I have my OS on the single disk stand alone. It just hangs when trying to boot as the primary when i have the RAID option selected in the BIOS. Really struggling to resolve this and it would be more than fantastic if i could access the data on my RAID again :)

    Any thoughts on the matter Psychlone?? Or anyone for that matter :bang:

    Either way - this guide really helped me along on this mobo so thanks a buch for it! Overall im really impressed by this AMD CPU+MOBO combo. They are both the top AMD components on the market at the moment and cost a fraction of the Intel equivalent! And the performance is astonishing.

    Went from a X2 6000+ @ 3.3Ghz with a Crosshair mobo to this new config and it was a big improvement. Crysis and Clear Sky are now WAY more smoother at the same and higher settings so im happy. And the improvement in SupCom is off the charts ! :biggun:
     

  11. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Exactly what I want is any good Micron chip ones. I don't care about the brand, but I do not know anyone so no point in trying.
     
  12. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Got my Noctura in Monday and had problem after problem after installing it.

    You wouldn't believe what I went through....I was up 28 hours trying to get things all nice and tidy and figuring out one problem after another like the pull out tray cut one of my fan wires and I had to splice it back together....I was up so long I started getting confused and began losing things like my thumb screws for the back of my case and all kindsa other bs happened...drank 4 pots of coffee through the whole ordeal and was cursing demons everytime something went wrong.

    I now realize the Antec 900 case is a great design and a terrible design both at the same time.

    At the end of it all I left one screw out of my motherboard that I forgot to screw in because I was just to sick of everything to take out the heatsink after all I had already went through.

    I am still mystified on how a normally 2 hours-to-do became 28.

    End results are my CPU is cool so I am happy and I can now overclock to 3.33GHz and it doesn't crash and stays cool at CPU 45*C/ Core 32*C under load...haven't tried anything higher than 3.33GHz yet.
     
  13. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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  14. ahoytharmatey

    ahoytharmatey New Member

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    ok so i have a question

    ive been reading this forum and others for a long time now and trying what i learned (or think i learned..ha probably misunderstood something somewhere), but here is my question.

    I have the following:

    -Phenom 9950 2.6ghz (latest bios v1.5) Zalman 9500a Heatsink w/Arctic Silver 5
    -MSI K9A2 Platinum
    -Corsair 800mhz 4gb Ram
    -Visiontek Radeon 4850
    -500gb western digital drive
    -850w Antec power supply

    I have tried everything to get this Phenom to stretch its legs and cannot seem to get past 2.8ghz. Im lucky to get 2.8Ghz. So what am i doing wrong. I have tried setting my ram at different speeds, cpu voltages, nb voltages ect.. I think im misunderstanding somethings. If someone would be so kind to point me in the right direction and clarify a couple things and to suggest some base settings and how that applies would be amazing. thanks so much.
     
  15. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    I can't find those in the RamList database of D9's, but that doesn't mean they're not Micron ICs...just means that Ramlist hasn't been updated for a bit, considering the highest MHz DDR2 CellShock is PC2 8000.
    From the looks of the timings and the manufacturer part number, it's in sequence with the other Micron IC sticks that CellShock has out there, but the 'Rated 1150MHz @ 2.3-2.4V" throws me off a bit - I've not seen that before...but if they say that they're stable at 1150MHz, then you have recourse to RMA them if they're not...so I'd grab them! - At least you know you could hit 1150MHz with them!

    @ ahoytharmatey: I'd venture to guess that your most limiting factor is your motherboard - but I have a biased opinion about MSI, and you should know that there are 2 other members on this forum alone that have had their K9 boards erupt in fire and spewing molten metal - *literally*. (you couldn't get me to run an MSI board if it came with controlling interest and stock in the damn company from my own bad experiences)

    Anyway, first thing that I would ask you is "What's the stepping of the CPU?"
    -Without knowing the CPU's stepping (you have to physically look at the top of the CPU itself - there's a series of letters/numbers that you need to write down or take a picture of) there's no way to tell you if 2.8GHz is the max for your CPU, or if it'll hit 3.6GHz...and there's no other way to retrieve the stepping information from anywhere else - you have to literally pull the CPU out and look at it.

    Get back with the stepping information and we'll work from there...

    Psychlone
     

  16. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Yeah, I thought that was kinda scary with 2.3 - 2.4v because I read someplace that anything over 2.1 will like burn out a Phenom or something. You ever hear anything like that? I don't wanna burn up my CPU with that stuff!

    I ordered those CellShock already a few days ago nevertheless. If they suck, I will just get something else later on, but at least I should be at 1066 or 1150.

    One other thing is...I set my DDR2-800 OCZ 2GB sticks to 1066 after trying all kindsa settings and configurations that simply wouldn't work. Now it seems to work perfect and stable @ 3316.5 with memory auto setting themselves to 5-7-7-20CR2 @ 2.1v, I am just afraid they are going to explode lol!

    DRAM:FSB ratio is at 16:6 so that's not too great though I guess.

    Should I set them back? How dangerous is it like I have it with th DDR2-800 @ 1066?

    Here's a screen shot if yer bored.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  17. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Nothing could possibly happen aside from frying the RAM itself - it's not going to take anything else with it...and that includes the CPU.

    Having your DDR2 800 sticks running at 1066 is fantastic - that's a 266MHz overclock! You sure you want those CellShock anyway? - In any case, you should be happy with the CellShock sticks - even if you end up running them at 2.4V, the only things that can get damaged are the sticks themselves, and at < $60, you're not out much! ;)
    (good job on the overclock!)

    Psychlone
     
  18. goitalone

    goitalone Member

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    Hey, thanks!

    It's been fun...I really have been enjoying my new Phenom setup :D

    I don't really care if the sticks go too much, so long as nothing else can get damaged, so thanks for the reply on that...I was getting scared not knowing, lol!

    Btw, I was able to take it a step further right after I posted that last message.

    For the first time, I was able to get through 3DMark06 @ 3.41Ghz without crashing and beat my personal high score.....got 15287 3D Marks. Wonder what I'd have gotten with an 4870 X2. Hmmm.....

    Anyway, I'm sure it probably wasn't 100% stable (especially by your standards) but if I can make it through 3DMark06, I am generally happy. I realize it's an old and out of dater, but that CPU test really is a killer. I found I needed to bump the NB voltage up a few past the vcore...that's what got me through.

    Also, I am now pretty much convinced I cannot go any further than 3.4Ghz after trying everything I could to get past it.

    Was able a few times to boot into Vista after trying quite a few different settings @ 3.5Ghz but it just couldn't take it.

    Not disappointed at all about that though since I was able to reach an 800 MHz OC. Just feel satisfied that I have found the limit of my CPU finally.

    I still don't get the ACC thing, it never once had any postive effect on any of my overclocks. Disabling it has always been best for me.

    Anyways, I am going to drink my last beer and hit the sack!

    Night!
     
  19. ahoytharmatey

    ahoytharmatey New Member

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    Psychlone: i dont have the actual numbers for my phenom, i will look tonight, but if i remember correctly, i believe it is stepping B3.
     
  20. hadibahal

    hadibahal New Member

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    :bang:Hello
    Help me for overclock system
    I have AMD Phenom 9950 BE and M3A32-MVP Deluxe/WIFI-AP and ATI SAPPHIRE 4870 and 2x2GB Ballestix CL4 800 but i can't overclock up 3.00GHZ

    please Help me for voltages and Freq for mainboard for up overclock
     

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