Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Psychlone, Jul 18, 2008.
According to some the CPU Tweak is for the pre TLB Fix Phenoms. Personally I do not know.
Yeah, I think it might be. Whatever it is for, I will continue to leave it disabled since it raises my temps.
Might want to think about crankin that HTT Voltage up.. my rig is tons more stable now at 1.30 and no adverse side effects. Maybe Psychlone will chime in and let us know..
Well that's interesting. What is your HTT multi at?
Do you have 800 or 1066 memory?
I don't understand why my cores are around 10-12*C cooler than the CPU.
Is the CPU reading even accurate on the Phenoms and new boards?
Reason I ask is I had to change it from CPU to AUX in Everest to be able to read the temp and AOD doesn't show anything but the core temps and AI Suite shows the same CPU temperature as AUX on Everest.
Why would AMD not include the CPU temp along with the core temps is what I don't understand.
I can tell you why the BIOS and most applications are polling the core temps - it's because the core temps are the most important - they're the temperatures of the actual cores on the CPU itself, and the 'CPU' that you're looking at is the socket temps.
What exactly are your core temps? If they're up in the low 60*C range during full-load, you'd best be for finding a better HS/f assembly!
On the HT - it's ok to bump the voltage a bit, but don't get wild with it - running at 1.4V or higher is going to be detrimental to the system. You could rig a fan blowing cool air directly on the voltage regulators and the NB to help out, but anything higher than 1.4 is only going to cause heat-soak and there's nothing good that can come from it.
I've found that CPU Tweak may or may not have anything to do with the TLB fix - since Vista forced that on us anyway, and it only applies to the pre-xx50 series Phenoms.
Microcode Updation (F4 under CPU page in BIOS) is the actual TLB fix that you'll want to disable if you're running a Phenom that's of the xx50 series...if you're not running a Phenom at all, then this will more than likely do nothing at all.
Running CPU Tweak give a slight performance increase, while disabling it decreases temperatures ~5*C on average. Having it enabled is really the only way to test overclocking with AOD, since disabling it leaves you with no 'red ring' (can't tell you what exactly this 'ring' is for other than a visualization of whether CPU Tweak is enabled or not, but the gist of it is to let you know that your full potential for overclocking is enabled.
I have noted a ~5*C temp difference with CPU Tweak disabled, and a (perhaps 2%) performance increase with MB/s in UNganged mode with it enabled - so that should help you to make up your mind which way you want to go.
My HTT Multi is 10X and im running 2x 2048 Gbs 1066
Im Currently Running 3.10Ghz
200 FSB Frequency
110 PCIe Frequency
15 Processor Frequency Multi
10 Processor-NB Frequency Multi
2.0 CPU-NB NT Linkspeed
1.275 Processor Voltage
1.250 Processor-NB Voltage
2.10 DDR Voltage
Manual Northbridge Voltage
1.30 HTT Voltage
1.24 Core PCIe Voltage
1.24 Southbridge Voltage
2.50 CPU VDDA Voltage
Auto Xpress Disabled
CPU Tweak Disabled
Channel Interleaving=X0R of Adress Bits [20:16,9]
MemClock Tristate C3/ATLVID=Disabled
Memory Hole Remapping=Enabled
DRAM Ganged Mode=Enabled (wont post Unganged)
Power Down Enable=Disabled
DCQ ByPass Maximum=no longer present with BIOS 0403
Stability Improved Considerably with new BIOS and 1.30 HTT Voltage.
I know i can push this CPU harder, i've had it post Vista64 SP1 at 3.4 runnin 1.30 Volts, just not stable yet cuz i don't have the time to jack with it...
I'd be tickled to get it 3.5 stable or higher...
I see, thanks for posting your settings and thanks also to Psychlone for the responses to our questions, much appreciated!
I think my problems may be one or more of the following:
1) Not using 1066 RAM
2) Using two different brands of DDR2 800 with two different advertised timings/voltages
3) I have the 4870 which consumes more power combined with less PSU Watts than you for example.
4) A not so great overclocking 9950 ...
I think I need to get a 1000 watt PSU and 1066 memory more than anything.
I realize that it is the socket temp I am seeing, I just thought it was strange that the temperature gap between the two is so much wider than my old Athlon 6000+ setup so I thought it might not be a the real reading or inaccurate or something because of the new quad CPU architecture.
I have always gone by the CPU temp when reading temps, not by the core since the core is always lower anyway.
My core temps are always in the mid 30'c to low 40's stock speed and never even got close to 60, even while overclocked to 3.4GHz with my crappy AMD stock heatsink and fan.
My order from Coolerguys.com will be here Monday with my Noctua etc. so, hopefully it will help temps a bit.
[After spitting coffee all over my screen]
WHOA!!! Hold the phone! You are using two different brands of memory with 2 different timings!!!
I'd say you need to nip that one in the bud first.... If anything is limiting your OC capabilities it is that right there. Your RAM has to be in sync as far as timings, etc. to achieve a well-balanced OC on your system. That's why RAM kits are so popular. You get two (or four) IDENTICAL sticks.
Good thing you mentioned this now, bro! Your going to have to get yourself some good Dominator memory before you push further. You may be able to OC your chip a little bit with what you have now, but why OC your proc and not your memory to increase bandwidth, right? Besides, memory's as cheap as it has been for years now, as you probably already know. GET SOME!
BTW, for pushing systems to the utter fringe of existence, I'd steer clear of OCZ (unless they have stepped up their game in the DDR2-1066 world, now)
LOL, I stupidly got the Newegg special right before I bought this board. OCZ not so great lately? No wonder it was on sale with such a huge rebate.
I have never been confident while buying memory.
Is it best to get less GB per stick and more sticks or less sticks with more memory? Or does it not matter as long as it's good matching RAM?
The Dominators didn't look all that impressive in the reviews.
I thought maybe Mushkin looked better other than you don't get the fans.
Anyway, what is best, 2x2 GB or 4x1 GB?
Personally, I'd go for the 2x2 since you do the dual booting. It'll interfere less with your x86 OS... since you won't have all the memory slots occupied. For your x64 it shouldn't matter too much, but be on the safe side... do 2x2gb.
I haven't got a chance to mess around with ddr2 technology... yet ... So, I don't know how big the gains between ddr2 -800 and -1066 are, but I always go as fast as possible, and since it seems you need to get some new RAM anyway, why not, right ?
I took the 2 GB of OCZ out because it will not let me adjust it to 4-4-4-12 plus it seems to make my system crash with my Corsair or by itself even when not overclocking.
I have decided that all I can really do with my 9950 is leave the FSB at 200 and up the multi to 15-16.5
Any FSB bump seems to suck other than 202 x 16.5 is ok but unstable due to not being able to raise vcore high enough due to heat with my stock heatsink/fan.
CPU Tweak doesn't seem to make any difference no matter what I do so I just leave it off still.
ACC sucks and plain doesn't work whatsoever for me. It just makes my system crash no matter what setting I have it at which for me is a huge disappointment. The only way I can OC is to disable it.
Voltages seem be impossible to balance out.
LOL, I'm not complaining, just stating my own personal findings and experiences.
I was able to clock the crap outta my Athlon X2 3800+ to 2.8 with a 750W PSU...it was so much easier than this.
On this M3A79-T Deluxe, I simply cannot move the HT multi anywhere up or down off of 10x or things to go hell.
I feel like a lost puppy on this setup.
I was reading this topic and tried to overclock my Phenom but I must be missing something because I can boot my pc whatever I set in bios, but when windows welcome screen comes it always crash...
-Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro
-Asrock AOD790GX/128M (790gx)
-4 x 2 gb Corsair (2x2 gb XMS2 800 and 2x2 Dominator 1066) with Dominator cooler (XMS will be replaced soon with second dominator kit)
-Gainward Radeon 4870 Golden Sample 512mb
-Point of View 650W black diamond psu
-Aplus Twin Engine BB big tower
So this is my default bios setup (windows works only with this):
Please, can you help me out how to overclock my cpu, for start never mind the frequency, anything is good, I'll raise it when I understand the procedure
I'd like to help you but I am bad at explaining things
Ok, I've made some progress, didn't touch fsb, memory, htt, nb, just cpu voltage and cpu multiplier and so far 3.2 windows stable with 1.4V and 42° idle so I will now start orthos and go to sleep... See you...
Ok, that sounds about right...have a good night! Might need to bump the NB up some too though.
@ Mrnjavi: What exactly weren't you understanding in the guide? Is there something that I need to reword or reiterate in it so it's easier to understand? (coming from 15+ years of overclocking, I probably automatically write in terms that I can easily understand, where others may struggle)
It looks like you've increased your CPU multi, which is really the best way to overclock the Phenom architecture, but you can still increase your FSB - which will in turn, increase the RAM's frequency, the HT's frequency as well as the NB's frequency...and you'll get even more performance out of your system.
I see that you've increased your VCORE (CPU Voltage) up to 1.4 and say that you're idle temps are at 42*C, but the statement "windows stable with 1.4V and 42° idle" means absolutely nothing - you need to be concerned about your LOAD temps. I could care less if someone can idle at sub zero...if your CPU gets up into the mid 60*C range under full-load, your idle temps mean diddly-squat.
Your AMD system will cook itself into a voided warranty quiche at about 68*C, so that's why the FULL-LOAD temperature is the only one that matters. Besides, you could also enable Cool n Quiet and drop your idle temps in half (literally) - but your full-load temps are still going to be the same as they are without CnQ.
While you're stress testing with Orthos, Prime, OCCT, or any other bench/stress mark, be paying attention to that full-load value. I seriously can't stress this enough!
On a side note, the only way to tell what settings are most efficient for your system is going to be testing. Run Everest Cache and Memory Benchmark before and after each change and you can clearly see your RAM's throughput and if what you've done makes it faster or not. Some systems function more efficiently with a high CPU speed and near stock RAM speeds/latencies, where others run more efficiently with a moderate CPU speed increase and faster RAM speeds/latencies...and you're the only one that 's going to be able to tell.
@ goitalone: Most OCZ memory is mostly hype IMO - people buy it up because of their marketing...they advertise some of the lowest latencies available on the market - which is great if you're not going to overclock them. Low latencies and faster than stock speeds generally don't go together, and it's my opinion that most OCZ memory are 'higher binned' sticks that have simply proven stable at the lower latencies...but try to overclock them and you get nowhere. - This doesn't mean that OCZ doesn't have good D9 sticks, they're just hard to find and I've never personally seen one.
When purchasing RAM, you can't just take a stab in the dark, or believe what everyone else says about a specific brand - you HAVE to do your research and find the specific revision of whatever brand of RAM you're looking for that has D9 ICs. Most RAM manufacturers have at least 1 set of sticks with D9 ICs - which means that they have a specific version of specific sticks that have Micron D9xx-Bxx memory chips on them - these are low-latency/high-efficiency chips (low voltage) that are usually only on a couple sets of RAM for each manufacturer...then they change the ICs to cheaper versions when price or other market factors make it more cost effective for them as a company.
Take my Corsair XMS 3202C2 v1.3 sticks in my A8R32-MVP Deluxe/Opteron 165 system - they're DDR400 (PC3200) sticks, but they're running at 583MHz @ 2.85V (3,3,3,8 1T), and have been at that speed for over 2 years. Version 1.5 and higher won't do that.
Then we have my Dominator 8500C5D v1.1 sticks in my M3A79-T Deluxe system - they're DDR2 1066 modules, but are more than capable of running at 1200MHz at stock voltage (2.1V) with almost the same low latencies that are stock for them. (5,5,5,15 2T)
BOTH sets of RAM were hand-picked by myself after doing proper research and finding exactly the version number that I wanted.
The D9 Buyer's Guide right here at Guru3D is a pretty comprehensive list to go through...also, RAMlist will give you an idea of the exact sticks that you'll want to purchase. (there's a different page for standard DDR (not DDR2) that shows the best ICs for them - they use a little different numbering/lettering scheme like TCCD or BH-5)
MOST people just buy RAM based solely on other's experiences, but have no idea that there are different versions of the same exact sticks (hence "Revision #") and the entire point to a successful overclock for RAM is to have sticks that *are* a specific version. Again, most RAM manufacturers have Micron D9 ICs in one of their sets of RAM, but there's going to be a specific version number attached to them - and that's what you need to look for. Otherwise, you're just taking a stab in the dark like I said - and hoping that you get something that you can overclock.
Hope that helps shed some light on RAM...it's pretty important to know these things when trying to overclock them!
As per RAM, my OCZ Titanium XTC kits did me well up to the point that i couldnt get them to run at the advertised Timings of 4-4-4-12, my response from OCZ Support was when running more than one stick i may not be able to push the timings that tight.... I wondered why they sold them as a KIT and advertised the timings as such.. they also wouldnt respond to my requests for Technical assistance or RMA.... only good thing was that my DDR2 800 would run at 1000 with stock voltage and no adjustment to timings from 5-5-5-15.. when i got my Phenom i purchased Mushkin Ascent DDR2 1066, and they have done exactly what they stated they would and then some.. Also if NASA uses Mushkin, i feel pretty good buying from them too. : ) I've used some of Mushkins PC3200 kits and was very pleased and i also had one of there PSU for a long time and they have never let me down. After my Fiasco with OCZ im a Mushkin man for life. There a little more expensive but i'll gladly pay for less hassle any day. Happy Clocking Guys!