AMD On APIs and the future of Mantle

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Rich_Guy, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    You can also argue that Windows 10 was only going to be DirectX 11.3, and that the DirectX 12 API was added as a feature after work on Mantle had begun ;).

    People are forgetting Windows 10 brings two new DirectX API's, not one. DirectX 11.3 will likely to be used by many of the smaller developers, supposedly.
     
  2. huilun02

    huilun02 Master Guru

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    AMD brought a low level API to existing versions of Windows, at time when Microsoft seemingly does jack **** for games on PC.

    That's all I care about. If DX12 and OpenGL takes off, all the merrier. But I hope AMD carries on with Mantle so they can breath down Microsoft's neck.
     
  3. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Until recently AMD really had no clue about DX12 -
    that's the only way to make sense out of why they decided to go with the whole Mantle initiative

    "The computer industry has benefited over the years from the constant updating of DirectX. Over and over again a new DirectX has refreshed the industry; new graphics cards need more powerful processors and more RAM.
    But there will be no DirectX 12.That's it.
    To our knowledge there are no plans for DirectX 12

    If someone wants to correct me - wonderful."

    AMD - No DirectX 12
     
  4. GreenAlien

    GreenAlien Active Member

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    I think the most interesting line is this one "Mantle must take on new capabilities and evolve beyond mastery of the draw call."

    It implies that there is some additional functionality in the works, that will set Mantle apart from DX12 and has nothing to do with draw call reduction.

    Is it in some way going to increase performance or more of a focus on ease of development or something else?
     

  5. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    DX11.3 is for the inexperienced programmers, luckily the larger engines are taking on DX12.
    Kind of hard to argue that when MS and Nv said they had been working on DX12 for a long time and have a working demo a month after Mantle was announced. Let alone shutting down AMD's claims that there is no DX12 earlier on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  6. pbvider

    pbvider Master Guru

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    That only shows that AMD was left outside in DX12 development.
     
  7. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    But then why would MS keep AMD out of the loop?
    Or perhaps AMD did not learn about DX12 until it was too late.

    And perhaps AMD did not think MS is serious, and then when Mantle was released MS got even more serious

    its all very strange and confusing
     
  8. PinchedNerve

    PinchedNerve Master Guru

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    Mantle was created to make AMD's insanely hot running, power hungry v-cards look better in benchmarks, that's all.
     
  9. Humanoid_1

    Humanoid_1 Master Guru

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    A very valid point.

    I would imagine MS was going to leverage DX12 support to help sell copies of Windows 10, but once Mantle became available for current Windows versions it partly helped twist their arm into offering Win 10 upgrades for free?
    (bearing in mind it is absolutely not possible that they will put DX12 into previous Windows versions)

    I can only see Mantle as a Win for us gamers, helping pushing development of our gaming platforms. Competition is a good thing right & made great PR for AMD + maybe helped their sales in the process :)
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    There is no way that DX12/Mantle had any bearing on Microsoft offering W10 for free. I would guess that less then 10% of people that use Windows even know what DX is.

    Also Khronos just announced Vulcan which is essentially a derivative of Mantle. So their development was definitely not in vain + I'm pretty sure that DX12 is also heavily based on Mantle.
     

  11. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    NVidia was never going to support Mantle anyway, so it was a dead API long-term to begin with. Doesn't matter how many devs support it from the start, if NVidia doesn't support it then devs will drop support for it down the road anyway.

    Your theory doesn't work. Mantle allows more draw calls than DX11, but has only been compatible with AMD graphics cards. For it to make AMD's cards look better in benchmarks, you'd have to be able to compare scores with NVidia cards using Mantle, which isn't possible.
     
  12. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I mean maybe directly, but if Mantle is the basis for DX12 and Vulcan (which is now confirmed) -- then it's being supported regardless.
     
  13. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    This is a VP of sales commenting on DX12. AMD is a 5 billion dollar company with 10000 employees, why would the VP of channel sales have knowledge about what the driver/API people are working on?

    He wouldn't.

    To answer your question about why would AMD create mantle?

    Because they created two consoles, one of which almost certainly uses mantle or something very very close to mantle as it's API. It's not a coincidence that mantle comes out at the same time as the consoles that AMD are powering.

    This is work they already had to do for the consoles. The consoles are x86 and use standard GPU and CPU designs, porting mantle isn't particularly tough when you've already done all the work.

    It is no possible to believe that AMD engineers and designers worked closely with Microsoft on the xbox, it's APIs, it's GPU, and didn't know about DX12. That is impossible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  14. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    Question to u all..

    what is amd Vulcan?
     
  15. Kaotik

    Kaotik Member Guru

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    http://anandtech.com/show/9038/next-generation-opengl-becomes-vulkan-additional-details-released
    It's very similar to glNext aka Vulkan.
    Also there's indications that DX12 is very close to it, too, but no proof really

    edit:
    AMD has been part of DX12 development since it started. AMD has also contributed all Mantle development work they've done to MS since day 1.
    Everything around DX12 indicates that it's development started only after Mantle development was already under way (except for 1 NVIDIA guy saying it had been going on for years, but knowing that IHV's are always part of the development, it's more than likely that it was just NVIDIA trying to claim "we thought this first")
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015

  16. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    because of this kind of statements, no one takes u seriously
     
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It's not AMD Vulcan, it's Khronos Vulcan -- they renamed OpenGL to Vulcan for glNext.
     
  18. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    XBox One uses AMD CPU and GPU, yet people think AMD was left out of DX development? XBox uses a modified version of DX. How would MS create this modified version of DX without AMD's direct involvement?
     
  19. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    nice
     
  20. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    That's a very low expectation bar.
    If it's village idiot that is volunteering information, I fully expect that he has some knowledge about it.

    Let alone AMD's Vice President of Global Channel Sales talking about technology that they have supposedly been helping MS with, and being 100% wrong about it.
     

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