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AMD NAVI would see three video card models, $249 RX 3080 close to RTX 2070

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:10 AM.

  1. Dimitrios1983

    Dimitrios1983 Member Guru

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    People here are crying about performance without proven benchmarks but don't think about what makes a GPU a true successor, Price & Drivers. AMD the last few years has been making better drivers than Nvidia after reading many articles and post. The long haul ( how they age ) is important for me. To me AMD's drivers are so good that I'm still on old drivers from months ago and no issues. I work hard for my money and bang for buck matters.

    My opinion is that I think in another 1-2 years their cards with be very very close to Nvidia's higher end cards. Most of my friends & family usually only spend about $150-$230 on video cards and try to make them last 4-6 years.
     
  2. Lang

    Lang New Member

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    WELL, AMD is working on the PS5 and XBOX consoles too that are coming out.....so they have alot of markets right now.....
    IM actually hype....coming from an i7 3770k and rx 480. Finally after 6 years i can finally do a full upgrade. Top of the line zen 2 with a 3080 and great RAM would equal RTX 2080 TI in pricing.

    That's VALUE. The price of a enthusiast CPU + midrange GPU + ram! for a the price of an high end GPU is a killer deal. Since you can *always* upgrade GPU but when it comes to CPU theres a whole lotta things you have to consider before upgrading.....chipsets,memory,motherboard..if your jumping from different architectures

    GO RYZEN
     
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  3. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    For your info, AMD doesn't provide enthusiast CPUs. Benchmarks are telling always the truth. That's why Intel is top for both gaming and general productivity, provided you have the bucks to give for it.

    AMD aims for high end and mid range market. Nvidia and Intel are dominating in enthusiast or professional level.
     
  4. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    You know not much to it on this thread but I'd kinda rolled my eyes for a while on "Fine-Wine" until researching it on Google, (any search engine will do) it's not as much an urban legend as much as I thought - there's evidence of it. As a primary Nvidia user - not "fanboy" as people coin that term; I'm observing that my company of choice does tend to backslide on "optimization" for previous generations as opposed to its counterpart which has a whole "cult-following" around this "Fine-Wine" lol just about their drivers. It cracks me up a little.

    I'll argue this has definitely not always been the case with AMD and in some cases clearly misses its mark. IMO HD5xxx gen but I just am reflecting here not putting one company down or placing one above. Merely remarking at the "perception" of peoples' reaction to their support. It is interesting to see Vega 64's performance at launch was not comparable to a 1080 whereas now it is and in rare cases a 1080ti (very rare cases).

    Another thing about Navi is "apparently" it pulls a lot of Micro-architectural similarities from GCN to the point to make me wonder if this was done on purpose to aid with initial drivers. That they may be in a sort easier for AMD to optimize.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 9:34 PM

  5. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    So... Threadripper isn't enthusiast-grade? Just because it doesn't enthuse you that doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to enthusiasts. Also, Intel doesn't top every benchmark, whether you're comparing basing the comparison on price points or per-core/thread. This is especially true once you account for the Sprectre/Meltdown mitigations.

    As for GPUs, AMD has enthusiast-grade stuff there too, such as Vega FE. It isn't an impressive one or something I would recommend to the average user, but being the best isn't the metric of whether something is enthusiast or not. Same goes for whether or not the hardware is obsolete. So for example, a Pentium 4 Extreme Edition is still considered enthusiast hardware, despite being woefully outdated and slow.
     
  6. Jayp

    Jayp Member

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    The fine wine thing hasn't happened enough to prove to me a constant trend for AMD. None of the pre Zen CPUs are fine wine. The only GPU that really proved to be fine wine was the 290/390 cards which was likely more so to the 390s being a rebrand and continued effort to milk every last bit of the architecture which is fine. Look at 680 and 670 from Nvidia though. Those aged better than the 700 series Nvidia for whatever reason. I guess the the AMD 7000 series just didn't hold up as well. There are some good tests out there showing that the 600 series Nvidia held up well to 7000 AMD. So really the only solid evidence of fine wine is 700 Nvidia vs 200/300 AMD. Fury as a flop too. 980 Ti has been beating Fury X since launch and still does better in more games. I will give credit to Fury running better on DX12 but does it really matter when the 980 Ti does just as good on DX11 and there is no visual difference? Vega doesn't really count yet because you are talking about how it did at launch versus its more mature drivers of late. Nvidia matured as well since the launch of the 1070/1080 and 1080 Ti. There are some solid DX12/Vulkan titles that make for good performance on AMD Vega but it's really too early to talk fine wine with 10 series and Vega since even 1070 and 1080 won't be 3 years old until what may? Arguably 1070 and 1080 are more fine wine as they are an older architecture which came out close to an year and half before Vega. Vega is still hot and power hungry as ever. I love seeing the 2080 Ti match Vega 64 power figures with significantly more performance.

    I just want to note that I am just calling it for what it is. I have nothing against AMD and own/have owned much of their products. This fine wine business is really only evident in one major case as I mentioned. I really want AMD to be competitive at all GPU tiers as this brings better options and prices. I always want to note that AMD doesn't really do much to pricing. As of late they have been just joining Nvidia prices, not really bringing them down. When Vega launched it forced the 1070 Ti but Vega wasn't even found for MSRP and even after mining died Vega prices were high. A 1080 has been more consistently a better performer for gaming and will run cooler and quieter while doing so.
     
  7. m4dn355

    m4dn355 Active Member

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  8. Jayp

    Jayp Member

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    Well AMD does actually make enthusiasts CPUs threadripper eats Intel for breakfast lunch and dinner. The only thing Intel has right now is gaming performance on the higher end of the spectrum. I love my Intel CPUs for gaming I really do. Zen 2 has every chance to end that gaming separation and Intel is in big trouble. Zen 2 doesn't even have to accomplish a whole lot to take the throne from Intel which has become very close these days. 2019 is going to be a very interesting year indeed.
     
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  9. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    980TI 4% Slower than Fury X in 2017 I really would have preferred you'd used Google like I inferred above. I'll just say I rest my case. Fine Wine as I even pointed out isn't a Science - but it's more of a "point" of one company optimizing with drivers (GPU) for their tech longer than another. I haven't heard of Fine Wine described for CPUs just video cards.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 10:26 PM
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  10. oxidized

    oxidized Member Guru

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    Where exactly do you read that, i said that asia isn't that steam based, and not only asia, so that's why we can't take steam charts as direct source of gpu usage. And i'm not talking about 1080Ti only, i'm talking about high to enthusiast grade cards
     

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Think about volume required to increase that category from 2% to 10~15% in case that region/demographics which is not included bought only those "enthusiast grade cards".
    Then think about reality that those missing groups will have actually very similar composition as those included at best. (I hope you ever heard about 1st world problems and countries to which this applies. And they are actually included in steam stats. So, steam stats are more like best case scenario for Enthusiast gamers.)
     
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  12. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Master Guru

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    As far as i understand it, Navi is the last tech based on this gen of GCN.
    its just an optimization of Vega, at 7nm.
    The After-Navi, will be the new Arch, but on 7nm as well.
     
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  13. Jayp

    Jayp Member

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    https://www.techspot.com/review/1329-buying-gpu-radeon-fury-geforce-980/

    Here is my source from 2017 where is yours? I wish you could Google... You also forget that many of benchmarks out use a reference 980 Ti when most people had non reference. You also forget that the 980 Ti is a far better overclocker than the Fury X and that again takes the 980 Ti into victory in more games than Fury X. Even with the factory water cooler Fury X can only compare to a reference 980 Ti and lose by 11% when both are overclocked. I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Again ill isolate fine wine to 200/300 AMD vs 700 Nvidia that is the case that backed up the fine wine and it stands as the only real case of such. You also might want to look around because many have used the fine wine saying for Ryzen since the 8/16 core/thread was fresh and people assumed that when games supported 16 threads it would be an automatic win for AMD. This has proven not the case. Again, I have nothing against AMD just against false information and claims without backing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:42 PM
  14. oxidized

    oxidized Member Guru

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    Not really no, actual sales are a different matter.
     
  15. Arbie

    Arbie Member Guru

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    So - AdoredTV is not always cool and not always right.

    To put in the level of work he does, then contend with the likes of 'cowie' above, could make anyone lose their temper. Most of his forum responses are remarkably reasonable. It's interesting that you saved those angry posts.

    Being wrong sometimes is a risk he has to take. He's very careful to bin his sources and present his reasoning. It's the exact opposite of rumors and conspiracy theories, and much more than "a bunch of stuff from other articles".

    Tell us: who else is putting in anywhere near as much effort trying to figure out and inform us of where things are probably going? And sometimes of how things got where they are? I would love to know, not yet having discovered them myself.

    We'll soon begin to see how close AdoredTV has come to calling the entire 2019 AMD game plan. In particular he has reached quite a lot on Navi build, cost, and performance. As he is apparently (?) the only prominent source to both figure it out and take the risk of predicting it, that will be especially interesting.
     
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  16. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    "i love you man"
    even though i dispute several premises, i like the way you think and present your arguments.
     
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  17. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    I thought they were referring to your avatar, the official Turing symbol. :cool:

    OT, if AMD can reveal a solid 7nm lineup before NV we could be back in the 4870 kind of days. I would love to have some kind of mid range 7nm AMD GPU for my secondary computer.
     
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  18. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    nicely done.
    there is a #$@# ton of work that goes into "Adoredtv" whether he is right or wrong, work was done. "cowie" has a certain point of view, that while over-the-top has a reason behind it.

    and on a "on-the-ground" level in "the Valley", with close relations with many vendors (day job), including AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Micron, HP, Dell, etc...
    imho, i don't think "Adoredtv" is far off. i'm under restrictions until after the (in the case of AMD gpus and Nvidia) vendors have gotten their pitch and ad campaigns lined up (short term to market) and other restrictions when it comes to cpus from Intel and AMD. and if you've ever read me b*tching and moaning about Intel's marketing, that's why.
    in any case, i think the prices are a bit low (5-10%), and ddr6 is a reach at the lower end (tho possible). but asfaik, this is pretty solid.
     
    K.S. likes this.
  19. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    The one in my reply in blue text - just click on it... I'm confused it's just right "there" - well hey I'm at an impasse' with you buddy I gave a source, you missed it. The date is there too. *shrugs* Overclocking isn't the point. At stock lets say a 980ti beats a Fury X at launch -which it did. Where as now, on average a Fury X can beat the 980 ti by a few percent at stock. The point is to show software optimization over time. Overclocking is overclocking - refining drivers is a different story (Fine-Wine) as it were had to do with refining hardware through software as I always understood it.

    My original post quoted the same article as you lol? (https://www.techspot.com/review/1329-buying-gpu-radeon-fury-geforce-980/page3.html) the conclusion at stock "980 ti on average 4% slower"
    Forget about overclocking - it wasn't the point - Fine Wine (here I go again) refining a launched product via the drivers (the idea of it aging well over time) You generally don't OC better 5 years later or 3 years than you do within a month of launch (hyperbole to make a point). At most the time it takes to refine is nill compared to driver optimizations of gpu architecture over the course of a video-card's lifespan.

    EDIT: Unless people are now using a new term or this term to apply to the concept around tuning the Zen/Zen+ micro-architecture for better performance, ie AGESA updates, finer ram timings... I mean that subject is another story but I want to keep an open mind I don't "know everything" I'm wrong sometimes so yeah' just never heard of that nomenclature used outside of GPUs Jayp. Anyways ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 1:26 AM
  20. chispy

    chispy Ancient Guru

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    Patiently awaiting for a replacement for my 1080Ti for a fair price at less than $1,000US Dollars for me or is a no go, be it AMD or Nvidia. Let's see what Navy will bring us in the future !
     
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