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AMD Mantle API (Low level hardware access)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by shadow_craft, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Even though we don't have all the information yet be not dismayed. It's not x87 code :D
     
  2. DesGaizu

    DesGaizu Ancient Guru

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    Just to point out that guy is just PR not a techy, his answer makes it sound like he doesn't even know what open source means.

    best bet is to wait until the full conference in November where Johan Andersson (frostbyte/mantle wizard) will be talking all about it in detail including what other 3rd party devs have already signed up.
     
  3. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I don't 100% believe its limited to GCN either, i find it strange that AMD would limit themselves to only making future cards that were so similar to GCN no major changes could be implemented.

    Nvidia could easily exploit such a situation in the future.

    Eastcoasthandle, as i said before i see absolutely zero proof that this would mean more console only games on the PC, if anything Mantle will make it more difficult as they now have to support at least two api's.
     
  4. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    If AMD and Dice/EA is to be believed, devs acually begged for this.

    If thats the case, they absolutely dont have a problems supporting both APIs.
     

  5. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Or better yet, remove directX/openGL from the picture and focus only on Mantle and Nvapi.

    Both architectures would be used to their fullest and no one would complain about it.
     
  6. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I don't think they can be believed though, it seems far fetched EA would beg for anything that involved them doing more work on the PC version of a game.

    Alot, if not most people would complain about removing DX/OpenGL, especially those on pre GCN AMD hardware who already think AMD are taking the piss.
    If anyone actually believed you could just ditch DX then you would need a huge game to do it, if they wren't confident even BF4 cold do such a thing what game could?
     
  7. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Supposedly the complaint was when when porting to PC, DX had so much overhead that they couldnt make an exceptional experience without a butload of extra optimizations which is why most ports are ****ty. They dont want ot spend the money for the optimizations.

    By giving the devs a API closer to bare meatal, it will actually cut dev costs.

    Or so the theory goes.

    Based on the slides they used, if the 13 games listed are going to use mantle, im inclined to believe them.

    Why would EA spend extra money the dont have to?

    Of course it could all be a sham and AMD is just paying them off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  8. DrunkenDonkey

    DrunkenDonkey Master Guru

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    Most games start on consoles, so devs will have to make mantle support for it anyway, if anything, they will make the game for mantle first, that means xbox + gcn pc marked out of the box and then work on porting it for dx to get the rest of the world. Not more work than we have now (console api + dx later), just the console api will get used partially at pc too with all the speed benefits.
     
  9. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    doesnt work that way.

    Each console maker has its own API - Dx and HLSLfor xbone, and whatever sony uses (ogl maybe?).

    In order to use mantle on the consoles, they would have to get permission from MS/Sony.

    unless of course they create a wrapper for the respective apis, but that would create even more overhead.

    AMD may make the hardware, but they have no control over the OS.

    Unlike windows, the OSs in controles are locked down tight.

    Which is what MS is moving to with windows 8 and the marketplace.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  10. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    The thing is, what if mantle is the low level API on xbone?
     

  11. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    thats like cursing in church :p
     
  12. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Not only that, which would be major news because that would mean MS backing through and through. But what if the R9 290X actually has 64 Rops as reported at TPU. In BF4 it would 'ridicule' titan as reported with Mantle.
     
  13. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Well for future next gen games it sounds perfect, also any early gpu wouldn't be strong enough to run them, so it doesnt matter.
     
  14. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    To further add to this point we know that this current gen of APUs being used in next gen consoles doesn't have the horsepower to run games with AA/1080p/60+ FPS alone. Regardless if it's 64bit environment/faster ram, etc. So, it's not far fetch to assume that direct to metal api approach will be used instead of just using DX approach/derivative.

    Yes, we don't know all the specifics yet but so far the current line of APU's aren't going to do it alone.
     
  15. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Its isnt, its based on windows 8 and is HLSL and direct x.

    HLSL=High Level Shader Language = MS low-level API

    If you are implying that Mantle IS HLSL, and have renamed to no one would know, thats a horse of a different color.

    That still leaves sony however.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    1st of all. BF4 will get Mantle update later because it is not ready now for launch!
    2nd no one is cutting DX support since it means cutting nVidia atm. And Mantle is not targeted to cut nVidia or force developers to drop DX/OGL.
    3rd BF4 is perfect game to start with Mantle to show it's potential on game which has rich graphics and utilizes both CPU and GPU to very high extent.

    This initiative is about giving developers chance to make richer environments.
    If developer want to create new tetris game it's almost certain that he will skip Mantle and goes for what he already knows.

    But if you would like to have TES6 with heavy density rich grass and trees with branches and separate leaves waving in wind, then Mantle will be very attractive to developers.

    If there is something what AMD did not told directly then I believe it's fact that with Mantle CPU will no longer be limiting factor and by that their APUs will become very attractive. And that mobile gaming will not need super costly intel CPU, but just average priced APU + HD7970m/R9-XXXm.
     
  17. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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  18. DrunkenDonkey

    DrunkenDonkey Master Guru

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    Well I have read several places including anandtech's mantle review, that it is basically the api for xbone. Makes sense - introducing just new api out of the blue, nobody will bite, but having console market now - it is the perfect time to introduce something that joins both worlds and this is the only way it will ever fly. We will learn eventually, but if it is just some gcn specific stuff, then they'll have a tough time selling it.
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    That seems unlikely unless MS also want DX in its present form to be used less and less on the PC.
     
  20. DrunkenDonkey

    DrunkenDonkey Master Guru

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    http://fudzilla.com/home/item/32815-microsoft-confirms-xbox-one-lacks-mantle-support

    QQ
     

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