AMD Mantle API (Low level hardware access)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by shadow_craft, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Thats what they said in that huge presentation at the Developers Summit back in october.
     
  2. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    I never remember seeing that. That would be a total mess and highly unlikely to happen and sounds impossible to me.
     
  3. SlackerITGuy

    SlackerITGuy Master Guru

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    Yeah I don't remember that as well.

    Pretty sure that's not the case.
     
  4. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    I deff recall them saying that in that 1.5 hour presentation they did.

    i dont think it would be that big of a deal.

    Some kind of sceduler to avoid deadlocks is all youd really need.

    If it is not that case, there will be no Post-Processing injectors or any externnal dx controls we are used to (radeon pro, etc)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well, I presume we will not have RadeonPRO and injectors at start. Mixing Mantle with DX calls is not impossible, but if Mantle can do already all that DX does, there is really no need for grabbing calls from DX.

    Well, we know only talks from presentations and what's on slides. Sometimes someone misinterpret something, so everything is possible till we have Mantle for download on dev. site.
     
  6. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    true...
     
  7. ClockClocker

    ClockClocker Master Guru

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    Imho it really depends on BF4. If Mantle give it a great performance boost, people will "force" Devs to implent it in their games.
     
  8. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    it will still take time to implement.

    bf4, theif and Star Control will be the only ones this year (That we know of).

    But starting next year there will be lots.

    and good god, that comment was from September, there's been lots other announcements since then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  9. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    Shouldn't take that long should it, as didn't that Boy George guy say he'd done it in a couple of months on his own. :p
     
  10. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    its a pre-alpha though, and thats going to be star control which is a tac-sim. massive AI, pathing, static ui elements, etc.

    FPS might be a different animal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014

  11. vejn

    vejn Maha Guru

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    Could Nvidia PhysX be improved with Mantle on API level?
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    nVidia PhysX can be improved on so many levels, because it still have close to no optimizations.
    Biggest improvements would be to go for OpenCL as you would be able to use CPU unused cycles for it. And most of PhysX games have very poor CPU utilization.

    But then it would show, that nV cards are not best PhysX solution as AMD would do better per $ and it would show that CPUs are fully sufficient too.

    nVidia did not shot itself in leg by giving out CPU optimizations and will likely not shot itself ever by implementing OpenCL/DirectCompute processing.

    But in case nVidia did optimize PhysX for multicore CPUs, then implementing Mantle at same time would reduce engine CPU requirements improving PhysX performance.
     
  13. vejn

    vejn Maha Guru

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    So why not do it?
    I mean, everybody is looking for better performance.
     
  14. vejn

    vejn Maha Guru

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    Could some expert programmer optimize physx with mantle?
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    No, Mantle frees CPU cycles to be used by other things. Those cycles can be used by PhysX.

    Mantle does not optimize Compute cycles, it reduces required number of cycles per graphical element sent to GPU to render.

    If someone leaked PhysX source, you would have seen OpenCL libraries long time ago. You can be best programmer on planet, but without source code it's wasted effort to disassemble it, look for possibilities for improvements or debug routines for OpenCL as it does stuff differently.

    nVidia promised with SDK3.xx automatic multicore CPU PhysX unless game developer manually decides to limit number of threads.
    I do not know single PhysX SDK 3.xx game which would actually use more than 1 thread for PhysX. I've been sitting tight and testing Planetside 2 with every new patch if they finally enable CPU PhysX as it should have been capable to do it. Not happening.
     

  16. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    For Planetside 2, I has do some research.
    By using GPUView/Process Explorer, PhysX 3 did using 2 threads.

    And as PhysX is using CUDA, I think it is really no need to optimize, except OpenCL is having lower overhead than CUDA...
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That is on nVidia system. And what's point in PhysX using 2 threads when you set it to HW (done by nVidia card)? Point is, that such game which is not using too much CPU resources may without issue run PhysX completely on CPU and such option should have been available in menus. But for some reason there is no particle physX via CPU in Planetside 2 or any other SDK3.xx game.
    (side note, vehicles are done via PhysX CPU, but that is something you do not need PhysX library for)
     
  18. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    What?
    I can't enable the PhysX GPU as PS2 think I am using the Intel graphic, as they don't support Optimus detect like Warframe, which also using PhysX 3.

    I think PhysX 3 part of GPU processing don't support CPU, so they can reduce the works on supporting CPU processing, while only making more with CUDA.


    And I still don't know why you want talking about GPU processing running with CPU processing multi-threads, as you are asking about PS2 only using 1 thread for just processing CPU Physic...
    http://physxinfo.com/news/11327/multithreaded-performance-scaling-in-physx-sdk/
     
  19. flashmozzg

    flashmozzg Member Guru

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    Have someone encountered/find a fix for bad mantle perfomance on 7850 1GB? (Possibly other cards with less than 2GB of video memory). I have 60+ fps on ultras in bf4 test range with d3d11 and only 45-50 with mantle. same situation in star swarm.
     
  20. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    bad performance is probably due to main memory swap due to low on-card memory.

    It wll most likely be sometime before that gets resolved.

    OCing your main memory may help, although how much i dont know.
     

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