AMD makes Super Resolution officially open source, four new games get support

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 16, 2021.

  1. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    It is, however, recreating the subjective sharpness of native. Which is important. That's why we use a sharpening filter when we play games at lower res and then use GPU scaling. The upscaler will produce a blurry image. If you want to get the same sharpness as native, you need to oversharpen the low res image so that after the blurry upscaling it looks subjectively as sharp as native. Of course the problem with that is the introduction of sharpening artifacts. FSR seems to keep those to a minimum.

    Note: the same sharpness, not the same image detail.
     
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  2. AuerX

    AuerX Master Guru

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    Thanks for this.

    Very visible differences that are easy to see.
     
  3. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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  4. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    DLSS vs FSR vs Native in Marvel's Avengers

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  5. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Ya this is what I was talking about with subpixel detail. FSR just doesn't hold up there.
     
  6. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    @Spets
    FSR Ultra should be compared with DLSS Quality, because the two are closer in performance. But all Ultra does (as seen in screens I posted), it goes from glaringly worse to clearly worse than DLSS.


    Bottom line:
    DLSS can be better than native. Due to reconstruction and temporal.
    Being an upscaler, FSR can never equal native. 78% of pixels will never look as good as 100%.
    There is no going around this.
     
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  7. Krizby

    Krizby Ancient Guru

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    welp, Necromunda Hired Gun 4K FSR UQ vs 4K DLSS Performance with Sharpen+

    4K FSR Ultra Quality
    https://ibb.co/cDqCJ5Z

    4K DLSS Performance with Sharpen+
    https://ibb.co/fHMZHk3

    Comparison FSR vs DLSS Performance
    https://ibb.co/MPTVGWw

    FPS with DLSS Performance could be alot higher because I hit CPU bottleneck already, DLSS Performance retain higher details that with a slight sharpening can look better than FSR Ultra Quality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  8. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    There is no such thing as "better than native." :p If it's identical, that means it's perfect. If it's not identical, then it's less than perfect.
     
  9. beedoo

    beedoo Member Guru

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    Yeah sorry but FSR is much closer to Native in the Avengers 1080p bridge scene - DLSS has started adding detail that wasn't even in the native 1080p image :D
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It's an interesting topic really - a 16K native image is going to be better than 1080p native image. I'm willing to bet that bridge looks closer to a 16K native image, in the DLSS one, than it does at 1080P. The question would be if it's even the same image at that point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021

  11. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Supersampled images are better than Native.

    I wish ppl would think for a moment before hitting Reply :)
     
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  12. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I have to say I find mouse over comparisons and sliders 300x better than side by side images.
     
  13. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I... don't think so. If I spatially downscale a 4K image to 1080p for example, that's supersampling. The resulting 1080p image is not better then the 4K source. I don't see why this wouldn't hold true for temporal supersampling as well.

    If you take four 1080p images as your source, that's a total of four times the pixels, so the equivalent of a 4K pixel count, but with the difference being that the native 4K image has all its pixels in the correct time. The temporal reconstruction uses pixels that belong to a different time and then needs to somehow put them together. How can that ever be better than a native 4K render that has its pixels rendered for that specific time?
     
  14. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    NO

    That is downsampling.
     
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I guess it would be Native vs Ground Truth?

    4K image downscaled it 1080P and outputted on a 1080P monitor would be 1080P native. The 4K is the ground truth? I think that's mostly just a terminology thing. Point stands that if you rendered that bridge image at a significantly higher resolution the support cables would look closer to the DLSS image than the 1080P image. Which imo makes the DLSS image better than native in that particular area.
     

  16. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Spatial supersampling is a form of downsampling. Like DSR. Or "resolution scale" higher than 100% in many games.
     
  17. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    YouTube vides are rather useless to demonstrate artifacts or image quality. I tried to capture the DLSS smearing in Watch Dogs Legion and the YT compression mostly got rid of it, it looked far less worse than on screen.

    This is also true for the artifacts that FSR amplifies: Motion blur (due to the TAA running on lower resolution) and pixel jittering of TAA. FSR doesn't solve any of the issues TAA has, apart from still image blur (which other sharpen filters can do too). DLSS Quality mode even reduces pixel jittering and motion blur vs. native resolution (the latter at least with 2.2).

    General note: When you do any comparisons, make sure that all samples look similarly sharp (well, but of course not oversharpened). It's plain stupid to find something better just because it is sharpened a bit stronger.
     
  18. beedoo

    beedoo Member Guru

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    My car is white, but I totally regret not buying the gun-metal grey one; it's stupid to complain about the colour as it's still a bloody awesome car... exactly the same shape, power and performance - but the grey one is better!
     
  19. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    But in this case you can hit a button and make your car grey
     
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  20. beedoo

    beedoo Member Guru

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    Where do I sign up - you should patent that!
     

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