AMD Halts Support for Windows 8.1 with Consumer Radeon drivers

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I think topic veered off into pub area. Will carry on there.
     
  2. vf

    vf Ancient Guru

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    Slow? I've seen no difference between 8.1 and 10 Creators Update boot time. 3 - 5 seconds and no fast boot. Shutdown is relatively fast as well, 5 seconds?
     
  3. kilyan

    kilyan Master Guru

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    Yes, it was slow when you tried it in early access..
     
  4. Dch48

    Dch48 Ancient Guru

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    The terms say only that they CAN look at your data, not that they actually do. All the data gets scanned by machine algorithms that will put up red flags if certain things are seen. Then, and only then, will an individuals' data be looked at by actual people. Everything that is not flagged is never actually looked at. If you think all your activity is being monitored by somebody who could possibly do anything with it than you ARE wearing a tin foil hat. In order for that to happen just about every person on the planet would have to be a Microsoft employee.
     

  5. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Exactly the point I was making, thank you. Thread in pub on this.
     
  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    They mainly have it there as protection against lawsuits based on insecurity/hacking.

    If someone gets to "your" data, they can claim, that they are damaged party, not you. But yes, wording can be misused. And they can claim rights to your intellectual property.

    But it is so ridiculous claim, that no sane court would ever give them such thing.

    It is like having EULA for pencil: "Manufacturer of pencil own all intellectual rights to all you draw, write with pencil."
    Then paper: "Manufacturer of paper owns intellectual rights to everything what ever appears on their papers."
    Then Eraser: "Manufacturer of Eraser owns intellectual rights to everything you ever erase with their Eraser."

    You write sentence on mentioned paper with mentioned pencil and then erase it.
    By logic, you promised intellectual rights for same sentence to 3 different subjects. Since you erased it, sentence does not exists and you committed theft. On top of that you committed fr-aud as you signed EULA (contract) where you promised same thing to 3 subjects. But since it is IP, only one can own it.

    It is Pinnacle of Absurdity.
     
  7. Exascale

    Exascale Banned

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    It may be the pinnacle of absurdity but its legal once you agree to the terms. And really it has more to do with consent to have your data analyzed than them being protected against lawsuits for their poor security.
     
  8. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Vista runs NT 6.0, 7 runs NT 6.1, 8 runs 6.2(Very little differences from 6.0-6.2), 8.1 runs 6.3. Windows 10 runs NT 10.
     
  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Instead of reading the EULA and deciding it's "all encompassing".... It would be better to have an understanding of the actual laws. Even though, per the EULA, MS has an implied right to view files on any computer running Windows 10, some files are exempted from the EULA. The courts have already ruled that no EULA or ToS can be used to circumvent laws or constitutionally protected rights. In my case, I have legal documents stored on my computer that are confidential, as mandated by state courts. It's actually illegal for an MS employee or anyone not directly connected to the cases they pertain to, to view the documents. The Windows 10 EULA can't protect MS or any of it's employees from criminal charges for viewing those documents.
     
  10. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    this train has derailed and burned into a pile of ashes. just mention MS telemetry in any topic and idiots here will most certainly derail the top and keep beating the dead corpse, it most funny especial seeing what smartphones are track is far worse, yet people dont give **** about that. turn blind eye to one but not the other, such hypocrites
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017

  11. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Exactly. Google is trying to catalog every single aspect of our lives to sell for profit.....yet people only seem to care about MS trying to track usage habits of an OS....
     
  12. Exascale

    Exascale Banned

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    There are an awful lot of assumptions in there. Who says i dont care what my smartphone or google does?

    Microsoft gets so much hate for Windows 10 because they changed their entire OS to cater to the "i want everything free" millenial clueless crowd which doesnt understand the necessity or value of privacy.
     
  13. Exascale

    Exascale Banned

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    And you would know about them "accidentally" collecting and possessing said documents how exactly?

    Do you haave a sppecial way of flagging the files not to be sent through their analytics? Scanned by their cloud based AV? Even though you must grant them a worldwide royalty free license to all the data on the PC?

    If such a flagging technique existed it would be misused by malware makers in about 5 seconds. You may have legal recourse if you could somehow prove something that not even the vast majority of M$(or google) employees have the access to prove. If you have legal documents im sure you know how parallel construction works ;)
     
  14. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    The great thing about laws. I don't have to prove they have accessed or copied the file. I just have to have a reasonable belief that it happened to begin legal action against them.

    You're looking at everything based on an absolute worst case scenario, which it's in the best interest of MS to avoid. There is no case where MS can create an automated rule for scanning files, that doesn't create the potential for criminal charges against the company and/or an employee of. There's also no way to implement such a system that does not intentionally create a security hole that MS could be held liable for.
     
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    the horse kindly asked people stop beating it dead corpse , how many pages of the topic is about drivers and how many are about win and its telemetry. people need to drop it
     

  16. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    And on that bombshell it's time to end the show :D
     
  17. Exascale

    Exascale Banned

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    There are already security backdoors that are open for criminal misuse though. Why would creating rules for scanning make them liable?
     
  18. PF Prophet

    PF Prophet Master Guru

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    watch this, it will help explain why nvidia is currently superior in MOST dx11 titles to amd, its not what you think, nvidia made a smart move power use wise, but they lose out when it comes to many compute tasts by not having a hardware scheduler..each design has its strong and weak points, properly optimized dx11 games will run pretty much the same between the 2 company similar tier hardware in most cases, but nvidia has a great advantage when it comes to dx11 games with zero or poor thread optimization by devs, because its software scheduler can thread the tasks, where amd's being hardware based cant really do that...

    im expecting both companies to eventually put out products that can use either mode or some sort of hybrid since dx11 isnt going away, and even nvidia arent happy about how it functions...the 480/580 where the last nvidia chips with hardware scheduler they removed that to save die space and power....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoZB-cnjc0

    watch the video, it really does a great job explaining why the 2 companies approaches each have advantages and disadvantages, and why amd can fly on poorly/unoptimized dx12/vulkan but choke on dx11/ogl trying to get the same results... and why nvidia dont show such gains and even at times snow perf drops...(they are having to deal with lack of hardware scheduler using drivers(software) and by helping devs optimize for their hardware....

    im not a fanboi of either company these days, moved from dual 290x to a single 1070 and i will say, i wish amd would get their drivers so that vsr was as good as dsr... and had stuff like forced triple buffering for d3d and ogl games not just ogl...

    on the other hand...amd do somethings i miss, amd's crimson CP is nicer then nvidias and loads ALOT Faster for example... and making profiles for games imho is alot smoother....more boom boom, done, rather then "click, and wait for the profiles page to load up, then deal with a scroll list of ****"

    each company has its strong and weak points, if only we could get a 3rd option that could compete and actually focused on not only a great hardware design but, amazing driver support...naa, that might force everybody to actually compete and innovate...like having a true 3rd cpu option would...

    well, anyway, watch the video, its quite worth the time.
     
  19. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    Sorry, that is 100 percent wrong :). All the system level drivers have a date string of 21/06/2006, but that is just the date listed in the inf file. There are other drivers that have other old dates, but the payload, the actual driver files, are significantly different.

    The most obvious proof of this is the CPU driver, although the same applies to ACPI and everything else - the devices simply weren't around back in 2006.

    Here's the AMD CPU driver info page:
    [​IMG]

    Here are the driver files for it:
    [​IMG]

    If your claim had any validity to it, Ryzen has been around since 2009.

    Back to the driver support, Windows 8.1 has an older WDDM that was added to with Windows 10, including different DirectX level support etc. Supporting Windows 10 would mean supporting the addition of extra stuff over Windows 7, but in addition to not using the stuff only supported by Windows 10. You then would have to test it on a range of cards for each driver, all to support those few still on Windows 8.1.

    I believe Windows 8.1 can use the Windows 7 display driver anyway, they just won't get the WDDM extra features that 8.1 provides.

    I really do find it funny that most people use their phones for doing stuff that is usually more personal than what they use the computer for, yet don't mind having an Apple or Android smartphone. When you install an app you will see in the disclaimer they could have access to your contact list, microphone, video, and everything else. Push notifications come through since the function is loaded, and on top of that the phones send usage data back to Google and Android, probably far more than Windows 10 ever has. If anything, the rumours of 'spyware' per say in Windows 10 was probably orchestrated by Google and Apple to deflect the issue from themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if they had, but regardless of that if you are sticking with Windows 7, or complaining about Windows 10 alleged 'spying', then you're a gullible idiot if you use literally any smartphone. If it really worries you then you will need to be a hermit living off the land out in the bush somewhere, because there is some form of data collection with MOST THINGS you do in western 21st century life.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  20. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    When I had Windows 8 original installed you could install the Windows 7 driver on Windows 8 for a while but then AMD added an artificial block to stop it installing.

    If then you extracted the contents of the driver and made the executable run with Windows 7 Compatibility Mode it would then install and function fine until one of the driver versions at the start of this year where the driver just could not install and just made the system crash when installing.

    I'm kind of over AMD's dropping of OS support, first with 8 which was understandable because it was EOL by Microsoft now with 8.1 which will be EOL in 2023 while still supporting 7, then I look at Nvidia and they are supporting both 8 and 8.1...... it's frustrating, I'm currently on 10 again despite not really wanting to be, my next card will probably be Nvidia after this, my last Nvidia card was a GTX 460 and it never gave me any issues, my previous R9 270 died and my current RX 470 loses connection to the monitor sometimes when playing video games, which I've remedied by underclocking and under undervolting the upper state 7.... sigh..
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    E71 likes this.

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