AMD: graphics cards with consumption above 700W TDP before 2025

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 13, 2022.

  1. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    GPU:
    Dell 6800XT 16GB
    Looking through this thread, context of this comment, and your other post. Pretty easy to conclude you are.
    Especially the raw stench of closet fanboy here.


    Power consumption on a cooling aspect doesn't bother me. I have 2 360 rads in a custom loop, and 1000w psu.

    But i feel beyond 400w is just too damn high IMHO.
     
  2. deksman2

    deksman2 Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    9
    GPU:
    RX 580 4GB (mobile)
    My worry exactly... but part of the issue here is use of outdated/cost effective materials in GPU construction.
    If GPU circuitry itself (and overall design) was made of say synthetic substitutes with superior properties that can be made in sustainable abundance (such as synthetic diamonds, carbon nanotubes and graphene - they'd only have to use relatively minuscule quantities of these to make better components), there's a greater chance that the technology would not be as power hungry (but this would require radical change to GPU designs).

    But for this to happen, manufacturers frequently wait until they can use pre-existing factories and methods to construct new types of circuitry... they don't want to bother with costly upgrades to their facilities so they can be adapted for something different... they're pretty lazy like that.
    They will go for things are are more cost effective and cheaper to produce (for them of course). But as you noticed, even though costs have been reducing for manufacturers, prices have been increasing for consumers (whereas for most people, wages are stagnant, they are faced with this riduculous energy crisis (which has a pretty simple solution, but since politicians are not problem solvers, we're stuck with outdated methods/practices that hit working people the most).
     
  3. deksman2

    deksman2 Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    9
    GPU:
    RX 580 4GB (mobile)
    Problem is the high end where high power consumption is required for diminishing returns in terms of performance (but because both NV and AMD want to claim the 'high performance crown'... they are basically pushing existing GPU designs to their limits... and getting away with it, because they tend to bank on people's ego's for the most part (even though there is no need to have the absolute top end to run games in ther maximum - again, dimininishing returns even on 'ultra quality' because 'high' tends to already max everything out anyway in terms of visual fidelity... beyond that, you encounter incremental graphical improvements that aren't that noticeable (such as say Raytracing - I [and most other people] still don't see many viable differences, especially when existing methods of making stuff look more convincing works rather well with lower strain on the GPU).

    To this end, I usually stick to the mid-range (or upper mid-range) GPU segment and tend to upgrade every 3 years (possibly 4) if needed... that way I remain largely in the same (acceptable) power bracket, but I get large performance increases with more passage of time.

    If there's room for improvement, I look into GPU undervolting... because that allows the GPU to run at its designated frequencies pretty much indefinitely at reduced temps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
    Venix likes this.
  4. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

    Messages:
    29,782
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    GPU:
    GTX1070 iChillx4
    Your posts make no sense man. They do not reflect reality at all.
    If you think that people are brainwashed for loving new technology and features , you might be in the wrong place.
     

  5. Truder

    Truder Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,118
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    GPU:
    RX 6700XT Nitro+
    Please can you refrain from the toxic attitude, I would not be surprised if you've already received warnings from the moderator team - you really need to lighten up, you don't need to insult people just because they may not share your opinion or may indeed be wrong on a topic, try to be more constructive in your posts, show examples of your information, expand upon it and offer your own opinions rather than coming out with chastising remarks that offer no input other than degrading others and yourself (which also lowers your credibility).

    In summary, try to be a bit more polite and less hostile, it costs nothing to show a bit of decorum and manners.
     
  6. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,744
    Likes Received:
    6,729
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    What just came to my mind, after reading the OP again: AMD did not say they were going for significantly less power... only "less than Nvidia"...
     
  7. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    GPU:
    RX6900XT, 2070
    people are losing their minds on this story.
    i vastly prefer a more efficient GPU and i'm a "hands-on" user who w/c

    but what they are talking about is datacenter accelerators not gaming GPU's (even though there is a trend there too).

    but keep in mind the vast difference in power reqs just between Halo and Enthusiast Gpu's, let alone mainstream.

    of course there's always someone to buy a fire-breathing gpu and call it a day, but the reality is the same technology used to make a fire-breathing gpu can also make a watt-sipping gpu (Performance or Efficiency at node).

    with the technology about to be unleashed in this upcoming generation the Halos (from both sides) begin to beg the question "how much is enough" as current gen Halos play well over 130fps@4K.

    so when we avoid the "pissing match" of the halo product we will see the "trickle-down" of higher frame rates at lower prices for mainstream and enthusiast - which will have correspondingly lower TDP's

    for some, RT @ 4k is their goal and good for them. i know the Halo's will easily outperform current gen monitors refresh rates @ 4K. and i hope the enthusiast level cards handle it (w/RT) @ 120fps.
    but as i don't care for the current crop of RT games, i hope gamedevs use RT more as this is the generation where it finally makes sense (w/o impacting gameplay frames too much).

    but the main thrust of my point is we're at an inflection point. who cares if a datacenter accelerator uses massive amounts of power? most of the buyers for them will be doing green offsets (even Nvidia is lowering their carbon footprint) and using renewable energy.
    so if i can get a next gen mainstream card that performs at last gen's enthusiast (and on and on) it will be at a lower TDP.
     
    cucaulay malkin likes this.
  8. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    885
    GPU:
    GTX 1070
    I will never go over 300 watts. I really want to stay under 250 watts. I have been down this road before and living in Texas I just can't take the extra heat. I will have to spend another grand on an AC unit for my office if I do get something at that wattage.
     
    tunejunky likes this.
  9. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    GPU:
    RX6900XT, 2070

    node reductions net either/or performance increase or efficiency increase.

    Samsung's ill-fate 8nm was an outlier not an indicator, the TSMC refresh was better for spec (if marginally, but far better for yield).

    if you jump several nodes you can get both (like Ryzen 1& 2).

    the problem here is marketing has their hand on the scales and people understand power and lust for it.

    it is just like Dodge offering bigger and bigger engines on the same car (up to 1k horsepower).
    IF you just want to travel in a straight line as fast as possible - great.
    BUT, if you live in the mountains why bother with the most HP when handling and turn radius are the traits you need and Dodge may not be the best car for that.

    so Nvidia and AMD are teenagers peeing off the bridge trying to see who wins the pissing contest.
    and the consumer is just trying to get a handle on esoteric specs.
     
    carnivore, Undying, Venix and 2 others like this.
  10. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,557
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    GPU:
    RTX 3060 Ti

  11. Venix

    Venix Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    GPU:
    Palit 1060 6gb
    Instead of making the mid ranger cards x600 xx60 super mid range cup and xx700 etc etc , I wonder how well will be received changing the categories to bellow 100/150/200/250/300 and some unlimited ones for the Gus guzzlers . I would like classification of cards that way ... How about you guys ? Btw as junky said those are seem to be database cards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
  12. GamerNerves

    GamerNerves Master Guru

    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    72
    GPU:
    RX 5700 XT Nitro+
    It seems to me that node shrinks are not drastic enough these days to offer big energy savings, but the demand, as this compact article states, is ever growing, because there are more and more gamers by the day. Mobile solutions do pursue efficiency hard in any case, so perhaps some ARM based architecture one day is indeed sold for us desktop users, but for now, it seems you the customer decide if you wish to accept the lifted power consumption or settle for a midrange or even lower tier product. The good thing is though that modern engines like Unreal Engine 4 and 5 are very scalable and at least to me it seems like my current RX 5700 XT is not feeling slow at all even in new games, which means that hardware ages slower when the gaming industry doesn't move on with hardware requirements, because of most customers not having greater hardware frequently enough. Very calming scenario in this sense if you don't have much spare money, though on the other hand if you are a big hardware enthusiast, I really recommend to start looking at water cooling and big well ventilated cases so your next enthusiast GPU will actually sound tolerable. There is also the inevitable positive, when more performance is not available in a broader sense, that coders must think clever ways to optimize and perhaps this way even reach new heights. Crysis was a very interesting experience and there has not been anything similar really after, but perhaps the opposite in the end is more enticing, which is great visuals by clever programming solutions and of course the GPU manufactures can help in this as well by offering whatever new software solutions.

    Personally I ask for less jeering and more reflection on this forum, because the manufacturers have already certainly heard you. Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
  13. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    296
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 3070 OC
    If the industry pushes these kinds of cards on the masses then they can burn in *bleep*
     
  14. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,585
    Likes Received:
    1,930
    GPU:
    6800XT/3080Ti
    AIB's release their cards with different bios settings which is why they also release multiple versions of the same chip.

    My 6800XT won't go above 1.15V unless I edit the bios with MPT and even then its not a given.
     
    tunejunky likes this.
  15. Crazy Serb

    Crazy Serb Master Guru

    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    59
    GPU:
    270X Hawk 1200-1302
    So you want to tell me that AMD achieved their goal because they said so and had special formula to prove it? Good for you then.
    It wont be long before you buy 600W+ GPU, 1 more radiator and 2kW PSU to counter transients because there is no other way (called innovation) to get more performance other then increasing density and power draw of the chips.

    This is why these companies release worse versions of their 6 year old products...
     

  16. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,079
    Likes Received:
    914
    GPU:
    Inno3D RTX 3090
    Nvidia made prices higher officially with Ampere, but tech-wise it's the most feature-complete GPU architecture, with the best drivers, features and relative performance. It's also the most future proof one.

    There's nothing brainwashing about upscaling techniques using matrix accelerators (that EVERYONE, even mobile phone companies copied), neither there's anything fake about ray tracing, and there's nothing fake about CUDA and Nvidia hardware in general being used more in academia. For good reason too, they invested more than a decade of work for this at this point

    The pricing was bad and frustrating, but that doesn't mean that the technology itself was sub-par.

    If you think that this was a bad release for Nvidia, you must not have been around for the days of the GeForce FX :D

    In all seriousness, I hope that Windows 7 avatar is not the cherry on top of the "tru old school gamer" caricature your behave like :rolleyes:
     
    Undying and Mufflore like this.
  17. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,771
    Likes Received:
    1,962
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    He is so far off topic most of the time and posts such nonsense, his posts have no worth.
    Well, apart from having a little fun in retort :)
     
    sykozis likes this.
  18. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    22,324
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    GPU:
    Asus RX6700XT
    His posts aren't even entertaining.... The few posts he's made that I've actually paid attention to lack any facts whatsoever. They're simply pathetic attempts to discourage people from troubleshooting their own PC problems or to pass on misinformation.
     
  19. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    GPU:
    RX6900XT, 2070

    worry is ok, but you're light on facts.
    the rise in the cost of manufacturing (incl. fuel) along with eastern European adventurism has fueled inflation to the point that folks actually feel it.

    i'm in electronic manufacturing, my company is a supplier to names everyone on this sight knows.

    you seem to think that PC gaming is isolated from the world and world trends.

    every manufacturer of CPU's and GPU's are using bleeding edge technology and the newest plants - and that's directly related to price.

    if these companies were using old plants prices wouldn't rise nearly as much as the cost of maintenance is far lower than the costs of permitting, building, and outfitting new plants.

    i'm all for even higher tech but when you're building millions of units per year you might find that production for those materials (nanotubes,etc) doesn't scale as fast or as well.
     
    pegasus1 likes this.
  20. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    5,864
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    AMD is saying this because they have 700w products in the pipeline

    and thats bad.
     

Share This Page