AMD faces Lawsuit over Core Count on Bulldozer

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    47,547
    Likes Received:
    16,648
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
    AMD faces a lawsuit over the core count on Bulldozer, reports legalnewsline.com .In claiming that its new Bulldozer CPU had “8-cores,” which means it can perform eight calculation...

    AMD faces Lawsuit over Core Count on Bulldozer
     
  2. Illnino

    Illnino Master Guru

    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    XFX 290x EK H20
    Oh dear, could be that straw.......
     
  3. isidore

    isidore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,276
    Likes Received:
    58
    GPU:
    RTX 2080TI GamingOC
    well i remember pretty clear that at the launch of this cpu's, you, Hilbert, presented some info on this and said something about 7,5 CPU or something like that.
    Also how can this lawsuit stand when the performance of the CPU's drastically depends on how a application uses them, and as far as i know amd's 8 core cpu's work as they should in multi threaded apps and use the cores properly.

    or maybe i'm missing something, anyway the suit it's pretty shady.
     
  4. (.)(.)

    (.)(.) Banned

    Messages:
    9,094
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GTX 970
    quick, post those gtx970 3.5gb articles to protect AMD.
     

  5. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    15,238
    Likes Received:
    8,941
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    This is like saying bloody mary for the first time. :rolleyes:
     
  6. AlmondMan

    AlmondMan Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    322
    GPU:
    7900 XT Reference
    **** you, Tony Dickey.
     
  7. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,189
    Likes Received:
    2,816
    GPU:
    PNY RTX4090
    The way AMD designed their architecture for these CPU's (bulldozer, steamroller, etc) was much like Intel's Hyper Threading, or PS3's Cell CPU.

    It DOES NOT actually have 8 full cores. But consists of modules that act like CPU cores that can each handle 2 threads of data.

    Their "8 core" CPU's contains 4 modules. Basically 4 cores, that can each handle 2 threads and they act and show up like 8 cores in windows and in the BIOS.

    Only real difference AMD did was allow these modules to access L1, L2, & L3 cache simultaneously. So they can each draw from the same pool. Where as Intel has L1, and L2 cache per core and then a larger shared L3 cache.

    AMD did this approach to improve multi core performance and it does work. When their CPU's are crunching proper coded multi-threaded workloads their CPU's are actually really really good and show some strong performance and efficiency but it's their single threaded performance where its weakest.

    The modules they use are not very strong when working alone, they are best used when they are all working together on the same data or different types of data at the same time.

    AMD also didn't expect multi threaded coding to take so long to catch on and when it did it's not the way they had hoped. Multi threaded applications now share streams of data to each core. So 1 core is working on 1 thing and the 2nd is working on something totally different. AMD expected multi threaded coding to split each stream of data up. So core 1 and 2 for example would be working on the same data that has been divided up for it. This hasn't really happened apart from in Windows it self, video editing, photo editing, gaming, etc all go the route of splitting data up separately so for example sound will be on 1 core, A.I will be on another. It's still technically single threaded but instead of everything being processed sequentially its processed on its own and at the same time as other streams of data. We see a boost in performance because of it. Getting really technical would be to code a program to split each stream of data up even further and allowing different parts of the same data to be processed across multiple cores/threads (kinda how a GPU works with "stream processors").

    Basically AMD used weaker cores but used more of them and allowed them access to more memory to try and compensate for it.

    Intel used stronger cores and allowed each one to access 2 threads. Meaning they have the best of both worlds strong single threaded and strong multi threaded performance.

    There is a lot more to it then this, Intel has been getting into performance per watt for years now and their efficiency is through the roof per watts used. AMD on the other hand switched from the efficiency route of their Athlon days to a cores and GHz race. Whereas Intel left the GHz race behind and we got Conroe (Intel Core 2) which was amazing for its time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  8. JoseyWales

    JoseyWales Active Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GTX 670 2GIG
    Not good, not good at all..

    This is way worse than the 3.5 mem issue vn went through. It's out and out *****ulent and they will certainly take a big hit on this one as that is a lot of cpu's to replace. What is interesting is that the company just shed it's graphics division and now news of this.

    Things don't bode well for them and this is the sort of things that ends companies.. I don't think it will be the case with them but it is really going to hurt them.

    I can't recall the specs on the PS and X1 but don't both of them use bulldozer cpu?
     
  9. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,189
    Likes Received:
    2,816
    GPU:
    PNY RTX4090
    Kaveri based architecture called Jaguar.

    It's low end APU stuff in those boxes not full bulldozer otherwise they wouldn't meet the 150W requirements of the FCC.
     
  10. antonelli3573

    antonelli3573 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Geforce GTX 970
    Better call Saul...
    I know a guy who knows a guy that has a true 8 core CPU.
     

  11. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,549
    Likes Received:
    741
    GPU:
    -
    The final nail in the coffin?
     
  12. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,991
    Likes Received:
    139
    GPU:
    6700xt @2.7ghz
    srsly? a class action suit?? how underhanded

    poor amd
     
  13. labidas

    labidas Master Guru

    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    119
    GPU:
    R9 290 / RX5700XT
    pfff...
    AMD can easily win this. Some losers just trying to make money.
     
  14. Dch48

    Dch48 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    Sapphire Nitro+ RX 470 4g
    Another frivolous lawsuit that should be summarily dismissed. The cores of a bulldozer CPU do work independently as can easily be seen by running a utility like HWinfo. This shows the speeds of each core changing independently of each other which proves that they do function as separate units.
     
  15. nz3777

    nz3777 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gtx 980 Radeon 5500
    I would really be shocked if this so called (Dickey) guy actually wins this law-suit,In my opinion just another loser that is looking for a free-ride on someone else back!

    I am curious tough as some have Stated Amd already being in trouble,this could be the Final nail in there coffin,Zen cannot come soon enough I tell you.
     

  16. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    142
    GPU:
    RTX 4080 Gamerock
    Yes, but AMD themselves market the processors as 8-core processors which is clearly not true. It's not as bad as if Intel would say that the 6700k is an 8-core, but it's still not very accurate.

    To expand CPC_RedDawn's answer, AMD's FX-8350 (we'll take this as an example) is not a true 8-core processor. A core needs (among other things) one ALU and one FPU (else it cannot be classified as a full core by today's standards). AMD's cores in the FX-8350 do not have one FPU per core, but one FPU per 2 cores.

    If we put this in perspective, the FX-8350 has 8 ALUs and 4 FPUs. You can see how this is misleading. They are not 8 full cores. They are going to have the arithmetic performance of 8 cores, but the floating-point performance of 4 cores.

    I believe this is what the lawsuit is referring to but it's quite vaguely explained.

    I don't think it's as big as Nvidia's 3.5Gb issue. At least not in my perspective.
    I believe it was common knowledge for the tech enthusiasts, but the average consumer would surely be mislead. Many of us here have known since the beginning that the FX-8350 cannot exactly be called '8-core' due to it's ALU/FPU configuration (see my quote reply above).

    Ps:

    You might say that the FX-8350 actually has 8 FPUs. That is correct, but it's not how they work. They are 128-bit FPUs, which couple up to perform 256-bit AVX instructions. Making them 4 effective FPUs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  17. Illnino

    Illnino Master Guru

    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    XFX 290x EK H20
    [​IMG]
     
  18. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,142
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    GPU:
    GTX 1080 Ti
    In the brief part of the article I read, the complaint was the 8 "cores" do not work independently. While they do share the same FPU per module and other resources, these cores can still scale individually. Meaning that they do operate as 8 cores technically. On my i7, 2 threads on the same core operate the same in terms of scaling.

    I do not think AMD is going to get hurt by this, I think this will pretty much just blow over. In a way I would not be surprised to see Intel speak for AMD here sooner or later.
     
  19. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,480
    Likes Received:
    2,321
    GPU:
    Nvidia 4070 FE
    Dickey and his two PC stores will lose this, obviously. I reckon the US justice system isn't as poor as the US patent office, so it looks like a clear case. Who knows why they even bother to try.
     
  20. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,808
    Likes Received:
    3,371
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    People saw all those SH*TTY results of initial benchmarks. Most of us were pretty disappointed with single threaded performance and very few of us had use for all 8 cores.

    There are 2 types of people:
    1st) people who made informed decision, had use for Bulldozer and bought it. Or bought intel as Bulldozer was not been good enough for them.
    2nd) incompetent idiots who shopped randomly without smallest of efforts put towards knowing product.

    One should note that Total performance per $ was better than i5s upon release.
     

Share This Page