AMD Confirms Ryzen 4000 ‘Zen 3’ Desktop CPU Compatibility With X570 & B550 Motherboards – No Plans T

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by jwb1, May 7, 2020.

  1. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    amd has a history of "not supporting" certain chipsets and oems doing it anyway

    the support graphic shows x370 not supporting ryzen 3000 , does that mean i should assume all x370 boards do not support ryzen 3000? Clearly that is not the reality, its more to cover amd's own butt
     
  2. oxidized

    oxidized Master Guru

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    I'm no fan of PC components companies honestly, but you should also be addressing AMD fans who are defending AMD at least as much as intel fans are doing with intel. Anyway thanks for your work.
     
  3. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    There is so much moderation from this staff behind the scenes that you guys never ever get to see, which includes fanboyism from all brands.
     
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  4. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    Like this person did when they were talking about me in a thread I hadn't even posted in?

    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/r...cessors-quad-core-galore.432068/#post-5786301

    Which by the way, I didn't even report. People report people here when they fart. Its abused by overly sensitive people and those who don't like another person's opinion.

    But okay Hilbert, I'll dial it back. Too bad others won't.
     

  5. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    Read my prior post.
    Much like yourself, he also got a 1-point warning.
     
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  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    As far as I am aware (do not ask for source), It is MB manufacturers that wanted to end support for 300 likes of chipsets. Many did not want to provide support even for 400 likes of chipsets with Ryzen 3000 CPUs/APUs.
    They wanted things done in intel's way, so they could sell new sets of MBs.

    AMD may come to agreement that no support will be provided officially, but in case MB manufacturer decides to add support, they will not be prevented from doing so by AMD.
    As Rob wrote, it is software thing of insufficient BIOS flash size. But not every MB has insufficient flash size.
    What will be lost is PCIe capability and in some cases ability of CPU/APU to use high speed memories.

    I can say, that X470 boards are not losing anything critical. It is sad that AMD did enable MB manufacturers to simply take away PCIe 4.0 even on expensive boards which would have no problems running in given mode. But it makes no impact outside of very specific situations that use NVMe.

    Would I upgrade from 3900X to something like 4900X from Zen3 line? Maybe I would. But without support, it is sound: "NO."
    Do I have intention to buy 1st generation of AM5 socket MB + CPU + DDR5? No, too costly.
    This means that AMD is likely going to lose sales to make MB manufacturers happy.

    And I am sure there are people with Ryzen 1000/2000 series who were waiting for Zen 3. Maybe they'll buy Ryzen 3000 series CPU instead. But at time they do (when they realize that Zen 3 is not coming to them), it will be at reduced price.
    That remains to be seen. I expect clock bump in range of 5%. Power efficiency bump around 20% and solid IPC bump around 15%.

    What is reaching limit is number of CPU cores in AM4 socket. People did not believe AMD can feed 16C/32T CPU in this socket efficiently with DDR4. Yet AMD managed to do it.
    But is it realistic to expect more cores than that? It is not.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  7. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    The difference is that Intel did it on a whim, artificially blocking off CPUs from older boards. They forced Z270 users with perfectly functional boards to upgrade to Z370 boards for Coffee Lake, even though their old boards were technically capable of running the new CPUs. The situation with AMD is clearly about the BIOS storage (or lack thereof) on older boards.

    And to be frank, I expected something like this when it was revealed the Matisse wouldn't be supported on 300-series boards. They were already hitting a wall back then so it was obvious that they would continue to have problems down the road - the only question was how limited the support would be.

    There's speculation about how board manufacturers will handle this situation. One idea that's been floated is to have different BIOSes for different CPUs (so one BIOS for Zen 1/2 and one for Zen 3?). Another option is to get rid of the GUI BIOS and go back to the blue screens, which can also save some space. For me though, I'll probably skip the next-gen and wait for their new socket and DDR5 support (hopefully future boards will have bigger BIOSes).
     
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  8. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Not sure how you can be certain of this before they've been released and put through their paces.
     
  9. oxidized

    oxidized Master Guru

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    I'm sure there is, but in your post you're only talking about intel fans, while AMD fans are doing the same on this very thread. This is a backstab from AMD plain and simple, and whoever attacked intel for their crap should do the same with this, even because AMD kinda promised such support, and now few months before reveal goes out with this. I mean it doesn't affect me, i'm still running my old 2600K, so i'd needed to swap everything anyway, but i was planning to get an AMD PC next, and this doesn't surely help with that. At this point i might as well wait another year and see them go on AM5 or whatever it'll be called.
     
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  10. harondutzu

    harondutzu New Member

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    For example I own a Aorus x470 Gaming wifi 7. this board comes with a bios socket so you can take the bios chip out and programme/change it. If the capacity of the bios is the main problem for x470 mb not yto support future gen processors, it is not applicable in my case, as I can always swap the existing 16 mb with a 32 and go from there. correct me if I am wrong !?
     

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  11. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    it is certainly possible, but whether there will be a bios to flash to that chip is another story.
     
  12. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    Ughh that isn't really practical. But I guess? Maybe? Man, this is whole thing is really ugh.
     
  13. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    replacing bios roms used to be more common, you would have to go to a shop or order a new chip to get an updated bios, since they weren't eeproms. these days, bios chip replacements are pretty much exclusive to repairing bricked boards.
     
  14. RaulR

    RaulR Master Guru

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    And so it begins. Most likely starting with Ryzen 5000 and up we'll have to upgrade the motherboard also with each new generation.
     
  15. NCC1701D

    NCC1701D Master Guru

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    Doesn't impact me since I'm on X570, but I think it's a crappy situation. If it's possible to make Zen 3 work on older mobos by just using a smaller bios with the necessary bits, then why not do it other than to make more money off motherboard sales? And who is really pushing for this incompatibility? The mobo makers or AMD? I assume the mobo makers have much more to gain. Or am I misunderstanding something more basic here around how this all works?
     
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  16. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    Obviously they want to sell the more expensive newer motherboards. Many reviewers said X570 was nice, but expensive, so just buy X470 or whatever its just as good. I don't think they sold a lot of X570's. More people bought X470's and B450.

    Even our own Hilbert basically said that in his reviews of X570 mobos:

    Because Ryzen has done an effective job at getting people to switch to AMD, the mobo makers and AMD have clearly seen how they can take advantage of that.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  17. oxidized

    oxidized Master Guru

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    Those contents should be in the microcode, and that is AMD's i don't think mobo makers would go against a direct "order" from AMD if they want a motherboard to support a certain gen of CPUs, i mean they might do it but AMD will force them to do like they say eventually, like the asrock intel oc thing.
     
  18. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Well this is lame for AMD users...

    I´m thinking the same. Both AMD and Intel next releases are going to be on platforms with a very limited lifespan so maybe it´s better to skip them. My current 7600K is still going strong so i think i´m going to hold on to it a little longer.


    I hope not but i wouldn´t be surprised if you are correct.
     
  19. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    So AMD wants people to buy into X570 and Ryzen 4000 with DDR5 "right around the corner?"

    Why would anyone want to upgrade into X570 or B550 now?
     
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  20. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

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    Where has AMD mentioned that it would support chipsets with future CPUs? All I have ever read was that the socket was going to be supported. Even on their website: https://www.amd.com/en/products/chipsets-am4 nowhere does is mention chipset compatibility for the future. The only mention of future proofing is about the socket. Even in the article that was linked in the op states that only when new features are not able to be supported by the current socket, will the socket itself be changed. So the inherit principles of both companies are different at its core. One chooses to only build to the current choices at hand and the other chooses to plan for the future without having to provide a new socket at every turn. That is what it all boils down to. The fact AMD never came out and specifically stated socket compatibility and chipset compatibility should not be linked is on them. If someone from AMD specifically stated that past chipsets would be supported through 2020 please link the article. Otherwise this is all about nothing.
     
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