Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by jwb1, May 7, 2020.
Wrong. They are allowed to change their minds no matter how assholish the reason is. Also users' can't sue because they have no case based off of my 1st statement. Also I don't see a reason for AM4+
In short terms : AMD did an Intel move.
And as usual, many will complain, many will point fingers, and "riot".
Nothing new here, nor AMD and Intel are your friends. Business decisions as usual, increasing money revenue and sell more products.
Saying that the size on the BIOS chip couldn't hold the code for the upcoming Ryzens is childish, the MAX series from MSI could easily accommodate that.
However, on the flip side allowing the first gen AM4 boards support the actual Ryzen 3xxx series is something. Buyers of those boards got their money's worth and more.
You simply can't please everyone.
Is AMD a saint for that?
No, no sir. Quite the opposite.
Is Intel where users should flock?
Remember why you switched to Ryzen? So, where is what you learned there and then?
Is the constant choosing of the lesser evil.
Enjoy playing your favourite RPG called "Real Life" where decisions matters - for real.
You know English right? I believe you do.
They said support until 2020. Check.
It is the same platform by name. Check.
It all goes to court. Even if it is only up to three years, chipsets released from 2018 onwards should support new cpus for one last time. Only first ones from 2017 are excluded. Period.
Well, I have built quite a few AM4 systems. And for budget reasons some had to have 300 chipsets and were combined with 2000 APUs.
Some of those systems were severely limited by power delivery and needed physical changes to improve VRMs cooling.
I am sure that some of 300 chipset based boards have good VRMs design. But many have problems with power delivery to SoC/iGPU.
Design of those new CPUs with I/O die is quite far away from what was expected when 1st Zen based CPUs and APUs came.
Thing is that no/limited compatibility is most likely demanded by MB manufacturers and AMD did bend to accommodate their wish.
I understand that you (as many others) have very short memory. But with Zen2, large number of MB manufacturers did want to cut off X470 chipsets already. They wanted people to buy x570 chipset based boards. They refused to release new AGESA even when they were provided to them from AMD.
Smelly wind did blow from MB manufacturers, not from AMD. Is it OK that high quality MBs may not get support for Zen3 just because company does not want to do the work? No.
But who's to blame really? ASUS? MSI? ASRock? Gigabyte? Or AMD?
You should understand that there is only that much pressure AMD can use before it has no partner who would make MB for them.
It is not that many years when I really wanted AMD to make their own branded graphics, just to show all those AIBs that they are there to deliver better product, not substandard VRMs/cooling.
On other hand, some manufacturers may have learnt valuable lesson of PR with Zen2 about supporting BIOSes. And may be ones who enable support. Then others will have no choice, but to follow or look bad.
"False advertisement" to my book. There is a serious amount of ryzen users who've bought expensive equipment just to be future-proof.
What can we say to them? I understand that motherboard makers want more money, by cutting employees programming hours for new bios or dual bios (latest and older Gen zen), or satisfying profits from product manufacturing.
Do not forget people bought zen for a reason called upgradable platform. Intel was and is more futureproof for gaming sessions. Intel 6700k was beaten to pulp by amd 3600 and 7700k crushed by 3700x. 3 years later. 3 years.
Maybe,before the launch of Ryzen 4000 AMD will talk like this: "The 300 series chipset will not be supported, the 400 series will be supported only for 32mb Bios,the 500 series are fully supported".End of story.
But if the Ryzen 4000 will be launched in 2021 then they,AMD,are fully covered,somehow.
The AMD Marketing chiefs are so weak vs Intel,nVidia and others.They need to change their stuff quickly.
Here's the issue for me.
I upgraded my PC at the end of last year. I was always going AMD because after being stuck with no upgrade path for my Haswell CPU for over 5 years, I wanted to avoid that situation again. I saw both X570 and B450 boards and explicitely checked that B450 would have the same CPU compatibility as X570 going forward. With AMD promising to support the platform for 5 years, I had no reason to think there would be discrepancy between the X570 and B450. So I bought a B450 board as well as a cheap 2700 with the plan up upgrading to 4000 some time in the future
Obviously we now know that B450 won't be supported by 4000, which is frustrating because this was not made clear when I bought my board. Indeed, I may have looked into the X570 a little closer had I known this. AMD's biggest problem however is that B450 is still their primary mainstream chipset (however much AMD deny it) - B550 isn't available yet. AMD will be dropping support for a chipset this year that is still current.
It's not the end of the world in my case - I can still upgrade to something like a 3800 or 3900 down the line and get a decent performance bump. But I can see people who bought into 3000 assuming they invested in an upgrade path feeling burned.
I just watched a Video by Gamers Nexus and what he said in that video made alot of sense to me. The reason why AMD announced this no matter how assholish it is; is because they didn't want this decision to overshadow the Zen3 launch which makes sense. However he did say that AMD really screwed up with the launch of B550 because they made some users tired of waiting so they did what they only could do since they couldn't stretch their budget no further to get an x570 board so they gone with the B450 route instead only later on to find out they got shitcanned.
Also with me I am going the B450 and 3700x route and there is only a small difference between Zen2 and Zen3 in terms of IPC.
You say childish and yet, has anyone made a list of all available boards with the bios chip sizes? Has anyone made a list of all the people who would actually understand what they are buying from the start if they bought a Zen 3 cpu and a board at the same time?
In my mind you fail to realize what goes into making a BIOS these days because there is a lot of stuff that goes into it. The fancy graphical BIOSes that we see these days takes up some of that storage. Majority of motherboards have only 16MB of storage for the BIOS while others have 32MB. Also larger BIOS storage capacity beyond 16MB is uncommon. Also the code needed for CPU support also takes up some of that storage as well. The fancy menus you see also take up some space. Also how much of the storage each BIOS takes up depends on the motherboard manufacturer. Gigabyte for instance takes up less space with their BIOS than MSI. Sure the motherboard manufacturers can reverse engineer the BIOS to add support for Zen3 CPUs but that is a lot more difficult because of bugs etc.
I think the main issue is the timing of B550. Had B550 been released when it was supposed to, or at least alongside X570, then AMD could credibly claim that B450 is legacy and thus drop support.
The fact that B550 still isn't out yet means we have a weird situation where AMD's current mainstream chipset (which is B450 due to B550 not being out yet) will not be supported by AM4 CPUs released this year. That is awkward for AMD.
Couple that with the fact that B550 itself will become legacy once AM5 hits, and you have a bit of a mess for AMD. I suspect they will just ride this one out and hope people calm down.
Yeah that is exactly correct if B550 launched when it was supposed to then none of this would have been an issue. Not only that Also X570 will also become legacy once AM5 hits as well.
Around 15:35 giving more color to Ryzen 1000 launch support... or the lack of.
I always thought that "Intel blabla chispet also had huge memory issues in the 1974." was a bunch of hooey
19:10 cut throat margins on AIB end - 2.8% for low-end video cards!
I think the problem is bad communication from AMD, they should have clarified this situation when the latest Ryzens were released or on a future roadmap. Instead they decided to say nothing, leaving in the air the possibility of future support that now is not going to happen and now some people are upset and they have some reasons for that. AMD continues to shot themselves in the foot with those stupid things...
About the "Real Life" RPG, it´s getting boring and extremly grinding when it comes to money, can i play something better and easier, please?
How do you explain am2 to am3+ then?
If my x470 board doesnt support zen3 im officialy going With Intel in the future
Bye, have fun. If not for AMD, you Intel purchase would far slower than what you are using now and more expensive, let that sink in.
Hmm, history based their refresh plus variants lasted longer. Am2 was only a year viable before am2+, am3 lived only for a year also before am3+ arrival.
Am2+ lasted for three whole years, am3+ lived for 6 years due to ryzen preparations.
It is already OK for amd to abandon a socket based in their history after three years, despite being same socket by name.
So excuse me but I insist, they should go for am4+ before AM5 to avoid users crying out loud. They are confusing us. They already have done am2+ and am3+. An am4+ would solve all of the misunderstandings.