Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by jwb1, May 7, 2020.
I don't get it. My Crossfire VII Hero X470 has 256 Mb Flash ROM.
Same boat. C7H and it has 256MB of BIOS ROM. I don't understand why not on this board, but I have a 2700x. I'll just buy a 3900x or 3950x when they hit bottom.
I think most people are pointing out the inconsistency of the fans. Intel had numerous board changes that people felt were unnecessary and in same cases anti-intel posters bent over backwards to explain how Intel could avoid this.. now we have a case where it appears AMD has done the same thing and most of those same people that attacked Intel are suddenly writing it off as not a big deal. In the case of a B350, sure it's been well supported - but for people who bought a x470 as a cheap variant for 3000 series because B550 was delayed for a year, it's not a great situation. Couple that with some x570 boards (mine for example) only have 16mb of bios - and it's like what exactly is going to happen? Is my x570 going to support Zen 3 or am I screwed as well? Then you have quotes from Robert Hallock from a year ago: "It seems hostile and abusive to arbitrarily prevent users from keeping the same motherboard, which may cost a few hundred dollars, just to make the upgrade process a little 'neater' on paper." And it's like how does this not apply here?
Then you have other things like the B550A boards which are just 450 rebranded (reminds me of https://www.anandtech.com/show/12122/amd-silently-lowers-radeon-rx-560-specifications) and idk it doesn't look great that the company that sits there and champions it's ability to support it's customers, has fans that defend the same position, is suddenly faltering. And yeah, of course fans of Intel or people that just generally troll are going to take cheap shots for internet points against it.
I have compared their pricing, generation to generation and actually, the pricing has gone down, not equal or up.
Well there certainly are a lot of opinions on this and much of it is just fanboy/hater stuff by people who are not actually affected by this in any way.
I however actually bought a premium X470 board and a mid-range CPU (2600X) with the express intention of upgrading my CPU at the end of 2020/2021 to "the best" that AM4 could provide. To be clear, I'm very disappointed in AMD and find their arguments disingenuous.
So some boards' ROM can't hold all the necessary instructions? Fine, but don't actively prevent OEMs from including support for these CPUs on their board. That's just B.S. (and yes they are preventing it - AMD is not developing it, so there will be no "rogue" OEMs adding support - they don't have the necessary code).
Finally, to the people going
"I have a B350 board - should i really feel betrayed that i can't run Ryzen 4000?!?!???"
You bought a BUDGET 1st-gen board 3 years ago, while I bought a PREMIUM top-of-the-line board 1½ years ago. It's really not the same situation. The hardware on my board is fully capable of running the never chips. No need to worry about VRM-limitations or similar. The only reason I won't be getting support is because the BIOS would be "too large" for "some" boards... and even that could almost certainly be mitigated by simply stripping 1st gen support from said BIOS.
In reality I got 1 (ONE) incremental upgrade for my board (2xxx to 3xxx) that's it... Pretty far from the lofty promises originally given.
I cannot imagine why anyone is upset about this. FYI, AMD didn't support Zen 2 on x3/x4 chipset mboards, either! The Zen 3 announcement is entirely consistent. It was the mboard vendors exclusively who brought pared down x570 AGESA support to pre-x570 mboards--their own, of course. It will be the same, again, if it's possible to provide Zen 3 support on those early mboards at all. Look to mboard vendors to offer the custom, pared down Zen 3 support. Jut like with Zen 2, AMD won't be supporting pre-x570 mobos! Nothing has changed at all.
Exactly while it is disappointing to say the least however with me it doesn't effect me in any way because I am not getting a Zen3 CPU (4xxx) I will be getting a Zen2 CPU because I can't wait that long until Zen3 comes out and when Zen 3 comes out it will be total chaos trying to get one and there is only a 10-15% difference in terms of performance between Zen2 and Zen3. Yeah in AMD's defense with b350 boards they or the board manufacturer don't want to get phone calls or emails saying their board died when they tried to put in a Zen3 CPU and the board itself physically couldn't support it due to the poor power phases that the board has. That is one reason why some Tech YouTubers say not to try to put a 3900x and a 3950x in a b450 board and try to overclock it because the board can't handle it.
What is disingenuous about a company that publicly stated no need to buy a new motherboard when upgrading the cpu until 2020. It is now well into 2020 and it is a shock that they now say pre-X500 series motherboards are not going to be supported? The road map is being followed and now people are upset because the company actually stuck to the roadmap? Has insanity taken over? If in doubt refer to my post on page 10 #199 (next to last post on page).
EDIT: The links were removed from that post due to forum rules. If one is using the Chromium based Edge browser, just right click on the slide and choose search web for image. LegitReviews ran an article in April of 2019 and Techpowerup ran an article July 31, 2018.
I know my old B450 board was struggling to power my 3700x so I opted to replace it with a X570 and have no real regrets because I know my low end board would probably have choked hard on a Zen 3 chip. Had my old X370 not blown out I would still be using that even.
x370 has been out for 3 years.
About the topic of this thread, I see it as a non issue. If you guys are running a 3700x or similar, going 4700x will be a sidegrade, it won't matter. Just sit it out and upgrade in a few years, when it's actually an upgrade.
You have no idea if it will be a side grade or not. Most definitely, upgrading to a 3700X from any previous gen Ryzen processor was no side grade, at all.
Lisa Su stated that AMD would support the AM4 socket until 2020. I don't recall any statements about chipset support.
AMD has already confirmed that they will not support Ryzen 4000 on the 300 or 400 series chipsets.
AMD has already confirmed no support for Ryzen 4000 on the 300 or 400 series chipsets from their end.
What B450 board did you have? The MSI B450 boards such as the Tomahawk and the Pro carbon are able to handle a 3700x and overclocking if you have good enough CPU cooling.
has anybody actually asked a vendor like asus,msi ect about support?, usually they have more insight than the infamous amd pr department.
I stand corrected.
Good question. I was wondering what the Motherboard manufactures have to say.
I've found Gamers Nexus to be pretty damn accurate in what he reports...... though I still hate his case reviews.....lol Actually, I've grown to hate case reviews in general, but that's a different rant for a different thread. In general, what Gamers Nexus reports is usually pretty accurate and they don't seem to have any issue correcting any misinformation they put out. If AMD later back-tracks on chipset or CPU support, Gamers Nexus will post a correction.
Personally, I don't see what the issue is with how they're supporting CPUs and chipsets. I never expected my B350 board to support Zen2....but, MSI provided a "beta" BIOS to add support. I haven't tested it, but I've read an insane number of complaints about it. I received a B450 board Thursday that doesn't support my R5 1600.... Was I disappointed? Sure. Does it really matter? Not in the least. The board was purchased to run an Athlon 3000G. Not supporting my R5 1600 just confirmed that it would support the Athlon 3000G since the necessary bios version for the 3000G, removed support for Zen1. At the end of the day, you're usually better off upgrading CPU and chipset together anyway, unless you upgrade every generation. At this point, I'm looking forward to AM5.....as should anyone running Zen+ or Zen2....
@sykozis the ryzen 3xxx runs as fast on x370 x470 and x570 as far you do not care for pcix 4 ....because you will survive with your nvme maxing out on 4gb per sec than reaching 6gb ...where is the actual benefit to update your motherboard ? Artificial limits are bad ... If they do not allow at all the ventors to do their thing brace yourselves custom bios incoming ....hell i bet even intel hardcore fanboys might work to make em reality just to smear it on amds face ! If that happens would be one of the few times fanboyism would benefit the enthusiast crowd !
Neither do I. Considering AMD most likely has a say so what goes into a BIOS update or they Design the BIOS updates and what CPUs are supported with their Boards. I agree that is is best to upgrade the chipset along with a new CPU because you need a new hardware anyway such as CPU, Motherboard and RAM. I also like Gamers Nexus' videos as well. At the end of the day we got great CPU support with these boards. Also Threadripper users had to purchase a new board for 3rd Gen due to a socket change. Look what happened with that those users went apeshit. I get how they feel because of the price of Threadripper cpus and motherboards.
I don't mind if you don't quote the entirety of my post, but don't get "creative" with it.
As I see it, this is *precisely* the same situation. Firstly, it is not germane to this discussion how ghetto you feel my B350 board is, or whether you purchased the most expensive X470 board on the planet and then had the heatsinks gold-plated. Almost certainly, your board will run every single processor that mine will, unless the manufacturer really dropped the ball. I'll note that, in your decision to purchase a X470 board with the intent to upgrade late in 2020, or within 2021, you voluntarily decided that PCIe 4.0 support wasn't vital. And, that's fine.
For me, this *isn't* an AMD vs. Intel thing. But, in this particular case, AMD, along with it's motherboard partners, have provided an incredible amount of processor flexibility across several families of CPUs and chipsets. They just have.
Normally, there comes a time when the party is over, and the music stops. However, you still the choice to party-on, since you, now running "just" a 2600X, still have a very attractive upgrade option. If the potential of using something like a 3900X, (or possibly even a 3950X, since your board is so "premium"), doesn't blow your skirt up, I'm just at a loss to sympathize with your perceived plight.
Correction.... A320 was the "Budget" chipset..... If you're going to try to insult people, at least get the product market segments correct. B350 was a Mainstream chipset.
Quite honestly, I stopped buying "premium, top of the line" motherboards around 1.5 decades ago..... I stopped buying "premium, top of the line" graphics cards around the same time. Now I buy products based on what I'll actually use. Instead of buying a "premium, top of the line" motherboard, maybe you should have spent a little money on a graphics card....
So, my question for you is this.... Do YOU determine "premium, top-of-the-line" based on price, features, what??? Cuz there's no feature your board has, that my B350 board can't have....for far less money....
The "lofty promises".....were AM4 socket support until 2020.... There was never a promise of chipset support duration.
AMD has said nothing about BIOS ROM size in regards to Ryzen 4000 on the 400 series chipset. At least not that I've heard from any credible sources.
Quite honestly, if I had intention of "upgrading my CPU at the end of 2020/2021 to 'the best' that AM4 could provide"......I wouldn't be on a forum trying to brag about buying a "premium, top-of-the-line" X470 board...... Quite honestly, it's kinda pathetic.....
I dunno.... I tend to buy a board and stick with it until I have a reason to upgrade CPU. Then I upgrade as a set. Going from my R5 1600 to R5 2600 wasn't planned, but rather forced by a pump failure. I had originally planned to run the R5 1600 until AM5..... At that point, I'll probably go with an R3 so I have some headroom to power the disco ball and motor I plan to install inside my case to compliment all the RGB..... I really hope AMD figures out how to do CPU RGB by then....cuz I really need more RGB so that disco ball can look amazing.... It's going to be a "premium, top-of-the-line" disco ball.....
With so much being packaged on the CPU now, it really doesn't make sense to me not to upgrade motherboards when new features become available. Especially features that are dependent on physical characteristics of the motherboard itself. Next people will be bitching because Zen4 and DDR5 won't work with X470 motherboards.......