AMD claims that "Big Navi" will be their "HALO product", released in September?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    I tired of "good", "appropriate" performance from AMD.
    I am an enthusiast and I want the best and the best from AMD was when there was somebody called ATI...a long, long time ago.

    They need a king of the hill graphic card - not for the money, there is no money to be made in the enthusiast market, no company expects big profits from here, the money are made from mid and low range sales, BUT they need the prestige, the bragging rights. Until then AMD NAVI, BIG NAVI, RDNA, RDNA2 are just some words.
    If they flop...well, we will wait again and again for the promised next big thing and in between the guy below will be waiting for our money with his arms wide open...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    They did not need to completely beat intel to pulps to make people turn their heads and get some mindshare.
    Ryzen have not done it till today. Maybe Zen3, maybe not. But look at how many people, who would not touch AMD's CPU with 10 feet pole, have it now on this very forum.
    AMD needs to set themselves realistically and with financial responsibility towards themselves.
    Look on how big of PR damage that PBO2 max achievable frequency did to them. I remember when PBO1 (while officially provided by AMD) had warning that you are "voiding warranty".
    PBO2 did not change that much in boosting, but no longer "voids" warranty. Yet, because it is opportunistic boosting based on many conditions that may or may not be met, it simply had trouble living to last few dozens of advertised MHz on AMD's page.

    AMD should focus on delivering on their promises. Which means that when they claim Big Navi takes fight to 2080Ti, it better should outperform it in at least some scenarios. And deliver at least comparable performance per watt and performance per $.
    In realistic scenario, it should have comparable performance per watt with GPU that's going to replace 2080Ti on nVidia's side. Not to look like they are generation behind.

    Tell me, if AMD delivered Big Navi that would outperform 2080Ti by 10%, but had no DX-R capabilities, would you buy it instead of 2080Ti?
    I doubt it, it would feel like being generation behind while paying a lot of money.

    Being perceived positively is not about having top dog. It is about making modern/fresh product. That's why that rumor about AMD's RDNA2 paired with ARM look so attractive. It would be most modern mobile GPU for years to come. Everyone else would be catching up to them.

    And that's exactly what nVidia does for decades. They bring something new to table that competition does not have. Push it into gaming industry and cash in regardless of it being good or bad. Because it is new feature people do not want to miss on or have worse performance in games that use it.
     
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  3. MaCk0y

    MaCk0y Master Guru

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    Would have been funnier if instead of the dog, there was just black. :p
     
  4. Cerb3rus

    Cerb3rus New Member

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    Amd Gpu problem is not the silicon. Their drivers .... sell alot of nvidia cards :)
     

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    If I had penny every time someone says something baseless about AMD drivers like this, I would never have to work.
    So, be factual. Elaborate on your claim.
     
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  6. jose2016

    jose2016 Active Member

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    We need a 4k gpu for 200e not 1000e or 2000e.
     
  7. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Master Guru

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    To be fair there was quite a few people having issues with 5700 / XT etc etc when they first came out with driver issues. AMD have never been as smooth as nvidia on the driver side over the years, I think most people will admit that. So with RDNA2, which is new, they need to make sure this time they are not an issue and people can concentrate on the performance and the cost.
     
  8. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    I disagree. They just need top notch drivers. That's it.
    There is a lot of people that want to game with good performance at reasonable price.
    Take in consideration that being in consoles means also that most of the engines will get specific optimizations for rdna2.

    If the 5700XT wouldn't have had drivers problem, would have been a huge success already.
     
  9. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    Patiently waiting for fake benchmarks where it will show it will be 40% faster then 2080TI :D
     
  10. k0vasz

    k0vasz Active Member

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    I can imagine that big navi would be at the same performance tier as 2080ti, but the problem is, nvidia will release 3080ti at the same time...
    Also, AMD drivers have a shitty reputation - I think we don't know how many users are affected (could be only 1-2 per cent, or could be much more), but the internet is full of their issues. No wonder that at the same performance tier, AMD cards are way cheaper than their nvidia counterparts (also because they don't have nvenc and ray tracing, so pure performance alone is not everything).
     

  11. Maddness

    Maddness Maha Guru

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    Bugger, I was hoping for 80%
     
  12. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    "poor ampere" trailer is coming. I like the hype, especially when it comes to amd gpus. :D

    One day hype will be real.
     
  13. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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  14. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Rather than gleeful optimism it's become more of a desperation to ever see 100 FPS again without spending $1500 to have it. 1440p, fast ultrawide, how I love you but you are so demanding.
     
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  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I wonder if that's even possible on 1080p. RX 5700 XT is just 26% slower than RTX 2080Ti. (Source: TPU aggregated results.)
    Apparently, there is CPU bottleneck in play with many games. But what if GPU wait chain is reduced?
    Then something just 50% bigger in terms of CUs/ROPs/... could be easily faster on 1080p than RTX 2080Ti.

    Everyone is like: Hey, let's take fastest GPU available. Slap 720p on it and see which CPU is bigger bottleneck to it.
    = = = =
    @Hilbert Hagedoorn: But what about comparing GPU and Driver wait chain in same way? Taking AMD's and nVidia's strongest GPU of each generation, pairing it with low resolution. And finding out which GPU pulls more fps with same CPU. (It does not have to be fastest CPU out there, it can be anything with 6C/12T+. Important part is that only changing thing in test system can be GPU and driver.)
     

  16. Ricardo

    Ricardo Member Guru

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    Can't really see the relevance on such test, even though the suggestion is interesting. That would be way too specific and exotic, and the results would only have academic value at best.

    People don't buy PC parts because they have good architectures and/or were well designed on paper, they buy it for the performance on a given realistic scenario. And most reviews aim to answer questions from these consumers. Besides, drivers change all the time, so it would be a nightmare to keep the data up to date.

    This topic is actually similar to the whole Ryzen "glued cores" debacle: who cares? As long as performance is good, people will buy the product. And if it sucks doing most of the tasks expected from it, then most people won't care.
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I bet that you can see in many tests for which CPU to get with 2080Ti if every single last frame per second matters to you at 1080p.
    And in those tests, you can as well see how each CPU generation progresses this.
    But you do not get to see same data for GPU generations and drivers over time.

    People go to measure 2% IPC gain from generation to generation and are happy to declare new king of gaming CPUs.
    But they hardly ever get to see how GPUs and drivers progress over time in terms of getting highest fps on 1080p.

    And 720p there is to remove general GPU bottleneck itself and leave more space for bottleneck of parts of GPU specific to given architecture like caches, memory lattency management, or driver caused waits.
    You may not be interested in how big changes to fps potential have been made from Maxwell to pascal, to Volta, to Turing.
    And how they compare to AMD's GCN iterations and then jump to RDNA. And I am pretty sure, it is far more valuable from practical point of view than academic understanding on how much work has been done over time. And what is potential of each generation.
     
  18. Vananovion

    Vananovion Member Guru

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    The hype train is leaving the station!

    Seriously though, I am very interested in AMDs RT implementation and performance. This might just be my next upgrade, so I'm gonna keep a close eye on it.
     
  19. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I said it before and I'll say it again:
    All I want is a decent 4K experience for a reasonable price. If this doesn't offer that, I'm not interested.

    Kodak got cocky and thought digital was never going to be better than film. Nvidia has an ego problem but they're not stupid - despite their lack of high-end competition, they're still innovating. They're not pushing performance as hard as they could be, but something tells me they have some tricks up their sleeves if necessary.
    Intel I'd say is more falling the way of Kodak - failing to catch up, dismissing the benefits their competition has to offer, and depending on brand name to keep people's interest.
     
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  20. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    Well, apparently rumors are that Ampere can cure death so bring it on AMD!!!
     

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