AMD CEO Lisa Su: High-end Navi GPU and Radeon Raytracing is coming

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    There are others who can and will claim the opposite of you. Anecdotes don't mean anything. The thing is, the better you know a product, the more likely it will function the way you expect. If you spent most of your gaming experience with Nvidia, you'll know how to work around the drivers better. You probably have actually encountered issues with Nvidia, but because of your extended experience, it doesn't take much thought for you to fix them.
    The same can be said of just about any competitive market. The automotive industry is full of this kind of crap - all the time I hear people say "I don't like X brand because of Y problem" when pretty much all of the fans of that brand are like "I don't get Y problem". Sure, maybe the fans are just blind to the issue, but more often than not it's because the fans know how to avoid the problem in the first place.

    If something seems bad enough for you to avoid a brand, but, not everyone gets the same problem under the same conditions, there's a very high chance you're the one at fault. That being said, people who whine about Nvidia's stability issues are just as bad. Both Nvidia and AMD (and Intel) make good products and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how to configure their system or have unrealistic/misplaced expectations.
     
  2. AlmondMan

    AlmondMan Master Guru

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    8k gameplay is no problem, just depensd on the game.
     
  3. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    i call them people with broken pc's or people who shouldn't be operating more than a can opener.
     
  4. oxidized

    oxidized Master Guru

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    I remember you being a pretty reasonable user in the past, i remember reasonable posts, surprisingly enough for me, this is not, it actually sounds like a pretty goofy way to try and defend your favorite brand.

    Your argument is totally invalid, and no, i never had any problems with nvidia card despite i owned many more of those compared to AMD/ATi, there's no such thing as
    " the better you know a product, the more likely it will function the way you expect. If you spent most of your gaming experience with Nvidia, you'll know how to work around the drivers better. You probably have actually encountered issues with Nvidia, but because of your extended experience, it doesn't take much thought for you to fix them."

    You don't need to work around nvidia drivers, because they do what they're supposed to do and they require no additional handling past the one you might do for your own preference, unlike AMD's. Gamer Nexus' Steve Burke made a video a couple of days ago, explaining exactly how everyone feels about this matter. Consumers aren't as passionate as some of you look, they don't care which brand is it, they care about performance and reliability, even if it means paying an extra, and sometimes even if that extra mean double the cost or close to, they want to be sure that when they get a product it won't give them headaches just because it was designed poorly, because there's already enough inconveniences one might incur in when building a PC, so i guess we all agree it's better for everyone to have parts/components which work as intended and are reliable to use.

    If you're cool with changing back settings into the radeon settings panel or redoing your fan curve because the profile you made doesn't save and therefore it cannot be loaded at startup (and that is every time you turn on or reboot your PC)...But wait you could use afterb...Well you could if radeon settings wouldn't interfere with afterburner in all possible ways, fking up fan profiles and all sorts of things. But then again you could uninstall radeon settings or do a driver only installation, you could, but sometimes then afterburner won't read properly the data the GPU tells the computer, so you end up having everything disabled, and clocks stuck at 0. Well...None of this ever happened with nvidia videocards at least to me, but actually to pretty much i know who owns a nvidia card.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020

  5. Spider4423

    Spider4423 Active Member

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    I know right ? Minesweeper looks awesome in 8k. Hope it gets raytracing too.

    Now to go back on topic. Maybe AMD's implementation will rely on chiplets or something.
    Not expecting great performance or anything, but damn I hope they bring something, anything above mid-range.
     
  6. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    AMD is fully able to do chiplet GPU via infinity fabric. However there are 2 problems that Wang advised back in June 2018:
    1. You have to make the multi die gpu solution invisible to game developers so they see it as 1 gpu
    2. They have to get MS onboard to see it as 1 gpu so that the apps that you use on the OS also see it as one gpu.

    Is this what BIG Navi23 really is? Who knows. But I would suspect that if and when they do decide to go multi die they would start off using a lower tier gpu.
     
  7. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    It might use chiplets in datacenter but the bandwidth/latency of IF along with a complete overhaul of scheduling is still super far off for game workloads.

    Both AMD/Nvidia have spoken about splitting the architectures up for this reason. Gaming GPUs will probably be monolithic for sometime.
     
  8. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    Nvidia will switch to 7nm for Ampere...
    The last time Nvidia jumped process nodes, the GeForce GTX 10-series knocked its direct predecessors out of the park so the question is: Did AMD took in consideration Nvidia new architecture when their CEO made these statements about "high end" - what would be high end comparing to Ampere?
    One thing’s certain however: 2020 is winding up to be a great year for us enthusiasts. I can’t wait to see what AMD’s Navi architecture can bring to high-end graphics cards especially since the last "Nvidia killer" was 9700 Pro (me being proud owner of one "wrath of Khan") back when the company was...ATI.

    Also:
    ...wccftech.com again so take it with a lot of salt but could this be the "Nvidia killer" RX 5900 XT???
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  9. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Supposedly we will get 3 variants, NAVI 21,22 and 23. Navi 21 will match and beat 2080super, Navi 22 will touch and crush 2080TI and Navi 23 will have no opponent until Ampere release.

    AMD has only to reduce price to 5700XT and below, although, we have a critical difference. Nvidia will offer RayTracing to gpus from ~300$, meanwhile AMD is gonna ask 600$+. I don't like it at all. :mad:
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    If 21 is 500mm2 then 22, 23 will be the slower variants. There is no way AMD is going over 500mm2 on 7nm.

    I also don't think Ampere is going to bring significant performance upgrades to current series.
     

  11. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I too have read that Navi21 is for this gen of graphics cards and Navi23 will beat Ampere.
    Backdrop:
    It's been said a long time ago that (for whatever reasons) AMD and Nvidia seem to always know what the other is bringing to market well before it's announced to the market. Some alluded to spies at the foundries, etc but nothing concrete.
     
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  12. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    There is zero possibility their strongest gpu is only faster than already old weak 2080.

    AMD already wins performance price ratio with 5700XT vs 2070Super. Numbers naming scheme don't matter. The performance of those 3 gpus will be as mentioned above.
     
  13. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    If AMD does take the performance crown consecutively in 2020 what would be said? About time...
    AMD will charge a premium for their flagship gpu. Although I doubt it will be as high as 2080ti was but still. It's plausible to believe, even now, that some will feel betrayed by AMD for charging what the market would bare for it.
     
  14. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Why is there zero possibility? Their last two generations of "top end" GPUs have been literally this.

    I'm not sure what the performance/price ratio matters when we're talking about maximum theoretical performance.

    I think they'll launch a ~500mm2 card at ~300w that will perform near a 2080Ti. I think Ampere won't really push past 2080Ti performance either, I think it will be mostly a sidegrade focusing on price and power, similar to the 6xx series (kepler) by Nvidia.
     
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  15. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    In most countries RVII was more expensive than RTX2080. Don't hold your breath about pricing. It might even surpass RTX2080ti pricing level even for 2 digits only. ;)
     

  16. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Wrong thoughts. As I told you they already have won the battle between RTX2070s vs 5700xt. There is no point to place three(3!) more gpus between 2070s and 2080s. It's impossible from any POV.
     
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Unless they are based on a new architecture and have RT features that separate them out..
     
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  18. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    With that argument, I agree. More features/optimizations instead of more sheer performance. Perhaps you are on point. I never thought of that. We'll see later this year then.
     
  19. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-patents-hybrid-ray-tracing-solution,39761.html
     
  20. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Ironically, a lot of what you said is what a biased person would say. You're basically making the argument "I don't encounter problems so that means they don't exist", which is nonsense. Sometimes one brand accomplished one thing better than the other, but overall, they're roughly the same. It can just be coincidence of which problems you end up facing first. Generally, Nvidia is more stable with fresh new releases, but they're also prone to making significant regressions. So yes, you do in fact need to work around their drivers. Look through Guru3D posts of new Nvidia drivers and every once in a while you'll see someone say they had to revert back to an older driver.
    Generally, I recommend Nvidia to people who want to play the latest games as soon as they're available. Meanwhile, I'll recommend AMD for anyone who intends to do multi-monitor setups or doesn't like to upgrade often. If someone wants a non-gaming laptop, I recommend Intel simply because their GPU is better for mobile purposes; the benefits of Intel's GPU outweighs the pros of AMD's CPU.
    If you feel the need to tamper with the radeon settings, it's no wonder why you're getting problems. You claim you don't have anything to modify when you use Nvidia, so, it's pretty obvious why you're not getting many problems. As for the fan curve thing, that's a problem with the OEM, not AMD. Not all of them use the same fan curve. I've encountered many GPUs from both brands throughout multiple generations that had good and bad fan curves. Just because you lucked out and never encountered an Nvidia GPU with a terrible fan curve, doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because you got bad luck with a grappy AMD GPU's fan curve, doesn't mean they all have that problem.
    Look up 1, 2, and 3 star reviews for a variety of Nvidia GPUs at your local etailer. Ignore the reviews that say "DOA" or complain about things unrelated to the product itself, and I promise you will find people complaining about stability issues, fan noise.

    I'm not playing favoritism here; I am not saying AMD is better, because they're not. But Nvidia isn't as much better than you think they are, and if you use personal anecdotes to drive your opinion, you're going to get caught off-guard.
     

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