AMD Catalyst (Modified Build)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by TwL, May 29, 2010.

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Should the Official INF be modified or not ?

Poll closed Jul 21, 2010.
  1. Yes (I want to go through registry and copy GUIDs to .reg file and add changes separately.)

    5 vote(s)
    8.9%
  2. No (Functions should be editable as usual in CCC straight after install.)

    25 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Both (I want to have official INF in install, separated modified INF & 'Functions.reg' as choice)

    26 vote(s)
    46.4%
  1. r0sWell

    r0sWell Member

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    please forgive me if it looks stupid but :


    when you say "multiple monitors" drivers version, does it mean :

    - playing a game on 2 monitors / TV : at the same time (extended view)
    - having 2 monitors / TV plugged in, but playing a game on only one of them ?

    :3eyes:


    for example :

    i use a 24" monitor for PC / Games / Internet / ... __ Radeon 5770 Hawk (DVI)
    i use a 50" Panasonic TV for Media Player __ same Radeon 5770 Hawk (HDMI output)


    if i install the "multiple monitors" version does it fix the "powerplay issues" when watching a movie on the 2nd display (Panasonic TV) ?
    or should i install the "single monitor" version because i play on only one monitor ?

    [i hope it's understandable... lol :nerd::nerd::nerd:]


    thx ! :)
     
  2. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    yes it will, but you need the OGL switcher. Suggest 10.4b OGL override.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  3. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    OR you simply skipped reading first page install instructions *NOTE #1, but it works.

    -edit-

    anyway thanks for the picture. I'll add that to the note.. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  4. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    It means, If you got more than 1 display it doesn't matter where you use it or if it's 7'.

    No it will not as powerplay detection sucks, but it might on the v3.49.
     

  5. CoreyPL

    CoreyPL Master Guru

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    Installed 3.49 x64 on Win7 without a hitch. Cleaner couldn't remove ATI an nVidia files from DriverStore/FileRepository - access denied. But everything installed just fine, and my HD4890 didn't get generic drivers this time, but stayed at Standard VGA the whole time until new setup was launched.

    One thing - I've got new monitor today with max res 1920x1200. Connected it with HDMI cable. Then I've installed this new 3.49 build with doing proper per-instruction cleaning. When I checked how well/bad 1080p will scale (setting res manually to 1920x1080) drivers set my refresh rate to 29Hz and slider in CCC's Scaling Options went to the middle - in effect my picture was with borders (monitor was responsible for scaling to full screen, driver side of GPU picture scaling was off) and flicker like hell. For a second I thought the new monitor was fu... but after adrenaline kick went off, I've remember to set refresh rate and scaling manually, and everything is OK since then.

    But I just went to the green side - today I've sold my HD4890 and ordered GTX460 :) This is the last post that I'm writing with my old 4890 before it gets packed and send to another soon-to-be-happy owner :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  6. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    Well, this is interesting. Wonder why would this happen or were the other files removed correctly either on your specific system. Search 'WinSXS' for 'ATI*' there shouldn't be a single title.

    If you got/any possibility to pass me the 'patch.log' as private message would appreciate.

    Well, it will do a good installation no matter. The main thing there is that it got the LEGACY device out really. Which is hard to see and remove. Files in WinSXS or FileRepository are not that important as the MS internal is still removed.


    Well this is a sort of issue people just has to understand/learn to deal with their self as I don't have all hardware on hands to test shot and see how different hardware acts.

    It is impossible for me to identify, if you hit standard 1280x960 TV in the middle of a 2 LCD HD monitor setup and would tell me something is wrong, lol.

    How the heck you guys sell an GPUs. I mean seriously I have probably never sold a single card on internet (or a person I didn't know) which I have owned. Usually just buy the next/new ones straight up and trust me I am poor as hell. So, selling some hardware wouldn't be so bad.

    @commonly

    Well, it's been a sh1tty day/morning and seems it just keeps getting better.

    Take a look at this:
    http://twitter.com/catalystmaker

    Looks like 21. July 'Catalyst 10.7' release date was ones again false??

    but no matter longer it takes the better as long the time means anything on 'we are fixing something'. Although, that is still scary as everytime I wait long for new catalyst to come around ATI returns with pack of sh1t where I TRULY hope this new package would end this 'crappy chain of catalyst'-packs and really improve the stability and functionality in 3D and OGL 3.2/3.3 or Multi-thread through hardware OGL 4.0.

    -edit-

    Seems new app profiles is out. I suggest anyone using my packages IF INSTALLING this crap. install it copy the .blb and new .exe to your '%systemroot%\system32' and then uninstall the app profiles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  7. CoreyPL

    CoreyPL Master Guru

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    Still online - can't take off that card yet :)

    It looks like my Win7 installation went downhill. I've tested too much crap lately and it took it's toll. I will do clean install when GTX460 arrives - been planning this for a month now.

    I know what the problem might be with cleaning. I've ran the cmd from Total Commander, which I was running as an administrator (I had a friends drive connected and had to mess with his profile a little). So script run with administrator rights. Patch.log file was created in system32 and SysWOW64 dirs. I will send it to you nevertheless.

    Probably why I still have ATI files in winsxs.

    As for the res problems I've described, I just wanted to report my findings - more data usually lead to better quality product, so even though you don't have product X, users do and we are willing to share our findings :)

    And I sell my old stuff on the internet all the time. I prefer to sell it to the people I know, because if there is any problem I can help them myself. But when no one is interested in particular hardware, I sell it on Allegro.pl (polish kind of eBay). And I can sell almost anything :) I've sold mine 1.5 year old HD4890 with aftermarket cooler for 700PLN, and paid 779PLN for brand new GTX460 768MB with 2 year warranty. It took only 2 days to find a buyer. Some old or damaged laptops that I get when repairing someones hardware I usually sell in less than a day for parts. I earn more on this than I would normally get for my repairs. Recently I got 5-year old HP with Celeron-M 1.4GHz, 120GB drive (year old, was replaced after old one failed), 2x512DDR, 15" screen with almost everything working for free - guy just wanted to get rid of old laptop. And after checking the prices, I will get 100-120EUR for it easily. But now it's working as my net computer :)

    So all in all, I got my GTX460 almost free :p
     
  8. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    @CoreyPL

    patch log cannot be created on system folders it's created solid where you run the .cmd. as in 'logs\patch.log' if it's run from 3rd party app like total commander and patch.log would be created to system folders. That is Total Commander' fault solidly. As for issue I can see on your patch log cmd did not find the core .inf file. this is your specific windows cleanup issue. (Removed before??? if so use with 'force_cleanup.cmd' and it will defeat this issue.)

    As any regular environment it will work correctly (as in anyone else here).

    @commonly

    Anyone running some other 'clean-ups' there's exactly 12 OCX/ActiveX components left behind. Which I see no mind removing neither should you in
    these entries more is better, but you can be VERY sure it removes anything else ATI there is. It will even wipe down LEGACY which you will see no other
    tool in anywhere to do. (This is the thing storing actual ATI settings when you remove which is reason why your display does not restore to the 800x600 resolution).


    In another news:
    Working with builds v3.59-v3.60. I am unsure of will these come up when the v10.7 official drivers comes around to get some little bit better core 'driver',
    but I got here few details I am modding, atm, more of an fixes on activations inside the CCC. As for currently we are not looking for any 'real' updates in
    the next builds except as 'poll' says probably some kind of modification how the installation adds 'extra content' to catalyst panel.

    I am also building currently for myself a cleaner baseline drivers setups. Meaning the next set will have much cleaner look in basic driver enabled
    functions now as seeing how the original v3.40-v3.41 turned out to be **** just because 10.5a style addition to 10.6 was bad I decided that screw the
    damn ATI crappy sorting and go to full row by row sorting for each device class to make sure all devices functions on same line no matter what the GPU is as long it has the features.

    For those interested of concept HDxxxx as FireGL XX:

    Well, I took a look on this idea if we would run/turn an regular Radeon HDxxxx card to function with & as FireGL cards.

    Seems there is 2 pass of checks in FireGL drivers 1 is in the driver itself, but even, if you can force the driver inside the system second is in CCC control panel. So, that has to be hacked/cracked as well. it's either that or a BIOS.

    So, that's not exactly gonna fly so easily.

    NVIDIA PhysX:

    I've here began to think since older we go faster the physX is. Why do we even install anything new from NVIDIA?

    I mean seriously I will test oldest Vista x64 drivers next I can possibly find. I don't give a damn, if it's v1.00 from NVIDIA. Universal rule in any coding is
    direct code is always faster. So, I do not see why we install the latest it's totally different chip in the first place I mean. where the hell do we need latest rendering driver.

    Seems this is '177.39_geforce_winvista_64bit_english_beta' in my case which is the last release which I am able to install to Windows 7. ;)

    -update-

    Well, seems there's no way to get really old drivers working good. either there's a nasty lock by nvidia or simply physX ain't supported or something. Which is honestly really sad as old drivers are over 6MB in best case smaller than the new ones.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  9. CoreyPL

    CoreyPL Master Guru

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    I've found what's been messing with the cleaning cmd file. I have Kaspersky Internet Security 2010 installed, and it denied access to driver files. After disabling Kaspersky everything cleaned nicely (I've reinstalled drivers). I ran the cmd from Total Commander without elevating privileges, so the file was created in the same dir that cmd file were in and everything worked out fine.
     
  10. marthand

    marthand Master Guru

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    U can do it mate.
    I trust you.

    I have something in mind that Nvidia GPU doesn't use all CUDA cores for PhysX processing.

    I don't know is this right or Wrong.

    It can be know by GPU monitoring while PhysX is Running.
    I don't know how to do it.
     

  11. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    It's quite well done, lol, but I'll do some digging when ever I come up with any new ideas, if you got any suggestions let me know.

    Well, this was actually accusation from AMD or ATI employee to NVIDIA which was strictly denied of course by NVIDIA. Original accusation was that
    NVIDIA disabled PhysX processing in all CPU cores so GPU would look 'slightly' faster in PhysX than CPU. Funny thing in this is on CPU part this is probably
    true (that all cores are utilized) on CUDA cores I ain't too sure, but then again I have seen/done absolute 100% stress in the card by PhysX which speaks very much against
    this theory(when again 'what is the full stress we see with software' to be real sceptic). (you can do it with FluidMark 1.2.0 (just force more particles
    on screen lets say maximum of 128000, although, there's a bug going over 130000 which I've been wondering, if that's actually bug in FluidMark or
    NVIDIA drivers OR is it by NVIDIA there intentionally 'stress allowed by PhysX'-ideal of thinking).

    On GPU monitoring you can just use Afterburner it'll work with 197(.57 beta) series and the new 258 series etc. (not with all drivers just these few).

    Anyway, my intention here was actually to find out what core drivers would be good. PhysX itself is as fast no matter do you dump Forceware 17x.xx or
    25x.xx, but new ones comes with improved CUDA and API of course also with new 'locks' slowing the processing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  12. marthand

    marthand Master Guru

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    Definitely, I will help you mate.


    U have to find the coding difference when both Nvidia Cards are used not in SLI when one is alloted for PhysX.
    May be u can find a point there.
     
  13. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    Well, there is 2 drivers in NVIDIA series I know of which accidentally allowed Hybrid SLI to function in system with ATI on primary card, but as for 'coding
    difference' I cannot imaging what the heck you're talking about or do you now understand what you are saying. SLI for instance has absolute 0 to do with any of this.

    Point is to find smallest code which is more direct path to Physics code which in theory should process faster through driver and cause less loading issues to Operating System.

    @commonly

    Wondering when was the last time AMD/ATI driver team actually took a look to DirectX 9 modules. Mean that I just installed every single last catalyst
    since v9.6 (including every single hotfix release these has been) and by looks of it DirectX haven't changes any since v9.7.

    I compared every driver with 1 basic as much as I can drop AAs on screen (which works) under DirectX 9 game where processor does not hold graphic
    card back and compared those results on same scene over and over again multiple runs. There's not even a 0.3 FPS increase over graphics.

    I maybe should remind now that we are running v10.6 currently, heh (This is ATI Driver team 11 months of work ??).
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  14. dakon

    dakon Member

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    Thank you. These seem to be working quite well. 5870's, two of them in crossfire. I enjoy the HQ AF. Adds a nice crispness to games.

    Now if I could figure out how ATI broke crossfire with team fortress 2. If I don't disable A.I. I get horrid frames. It used to work great with just the standard setting but at some point it broke with the 10.x series of drivers. If you have any thoughts on that it would be great. I have tried every profile combination I can think of. I do not want to use too old of a driver simply because of all the Battlefield Bad Company Fixes.

    Do you plan to continue development of your drivers as ATI releases additional drivers? I hope so as these seemed to add features that were either off, automatic or hidden and also got rid of some of the useless crap in the CCC.
     
  15. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    They didn't you get 'horrible frames' because AA is applied finally correctly on Source games, lol, If you actually disable AI means you disable whole Anti-Aliasing also.

    It doesn't matter which old driver you use it's just less stable lower we go.

    Atm, not too sure. People tends to try and use 'ATI/AMD' drivers any way they can to test them through and find an solutions, but when I do an mod drivers which actually works on OpenCL, OpenGL, through DX levels people stops by and, if they have an a single problem it's on my screen and I honestly don't like it.

    All I can hope is ATI fixes their screw ups on 10.7 so I can let this topic RIP. Although, I will probably build myself drivers in the future also.
     

  16. dakon

    dakon Member

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    Interesting. Thank you for the info. So they finally fixed AA on source, which in turn is the true cause of the low FPS.

    For my understanding, Catalyst AI, if disabled, will disable AA and crossfire? Am I missing anything? And with standard and advanced it is the level of optimization of how the driver applies AA and what not?

    I have not been able to get a clear answer from Terri @ ATI.

    UPDATE: I wanted to let you know by forcing AA and selecting the Temporal anti-aliasing option, my low FPS issues while running crossfire seems to be fixed. Frames are back up to a very good level. I do not fully understand how this seems to of fixed the issue, but it appears it has. Thank you again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  17. r0sWell

    r0sWell Member

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    i installed the multiple monitors v_3.49.

    i followed the 'readme' and everything's just fine, no install errors.


    compared to the official ATI 10.5 i was using before, i can feel a real boost in GTA 4 with the 3.49... i think the game's more smooth (but i didn't bench it).

    no change in SupCom 2 (which was already running very well before).


    the 5770 temp seems a bit lower too.
    but i can't O/C more than before (not a temp problem because the MSI Hawk cooling system is really good).


    in other words, nice job :)
     
  18. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, AA was fixed.

    Disabling Catalyst AI will not disable crossfire only AA and in some cases AF effects in game. Also to note that on some cases disabling VSYNC does the
    same (not any longer on my drivers here, but if you would pop v10.2-v10.4b on box this would happen). Also on some cases
    like 'Bioshock' Applying AF HQ affects very badly on AA while normal AF 4x would work just fine.

    -edit-

    Looks like I am incorrect and CFX is affected according to 2 of people writing on this message.


    Basics are:
    AI > ON > Effects are Enabled (not dependent on hardware)
    AI > OFF > Effects are Disabled (not dependent on hardware) > (with exception IF game code is very good it'll force it's own AA, if set)

    MSAA/AAA = Doesn't automate anything BOX->EdgeAA is apply able including TemporalAA. (Example: EdgeAA 4x (12 Samples) + Temporal AA = EdgeAA 4x (12 samples) + Temporal AA 2x would be applied)
    SSAA = Automates BOX-AA no matter how you set it (example: 4x EdgeAA + TemporalAA + AA mode: Super Sampled AA = Forced Box 4x (4 samples) and Temporal AA would be disabled automatically by driver).

    Temporal AA:
    Using Temporal AA 2x is still allowed but since v10.4b they have removed and forced TemporalAAMultiplier to be '32 00' as in 'Enabled2' and Defaults
    '2'. Meaning, if some tool try's to set for game 'Temporal AA Multiplier' = x3 (as in registry binary: 33 00 or XML: Enabled3) this is impossible with any
    current drivers no matter what the author says.
    (restart catalyst and do a check it will reverse your modifications out, if someone needs further explaining let me know.)


    Exceptions:

    Bioware: Aurora Engine (Witcher, NWN2)
    Bioware: Eclipse Engine (ME, ME2, DAO)

    These engines will not apply the AA by any other mean than applying AA in game configs and AA should be forced through Catalyst after than on same xX level to Box->EdgeAA (which ever wanted). Also AF is same deal, but this has to be either way forced through catalyst to 16x (or what ever wanted).

    Bioshock engines:
    VSYNC enabled Affects AA applying, if enabled forcing AA forces them correctly. Where, if enabled AF HQ would disable all effects including AA and only AF up to 4x would work.

    Crysis CryEngine X:
    These engines has their own force ability on Temporal AA stresshold inside the .cfg files and limited NVIDIA X/0 AA style in ini files in game folders to make ATI look bad on AA. Basically modifying those values in .cfgs and adding/including same style ATI card modification to MSAA on crysis internal configs will allow ATI cards to apply AA or MSAA + AAA near correctly. (although EdgeAA=2 still does better performance & general gameplay).

    Also problems general:
    -If a title doesn't support SSAA/MSAA (or is blocking). All AA effects will be disabled including basic AA.
    -BF:BC2, if you configure inside the game 'Video'-settings. After you quit check that your catalyst didn't globally add all settings to your catalyst. It's a nice game bug seems to leave the settings in-game to usual Catalyst use. ;)

    and so on and so on...

    check the game that AA is applied correctly. As forcing full scene should never be used against game internal AA apply and this should never ever
    'speed the things up'. Actually it should slow it down. Could of course be that profiles & new catalyst simply does it damn much better (but doubt it).

    Although, game like these you probably prefer the smooth gameplay more than have insane load of AA etc on screen.

    Well they are not much for benchmarking, but they will work pretty damn flawless on gaming. v3.50 would be updated code base (as updated on single cards). Which should be even faster and more stable these builds has pretty huge difference in optimizations even while same driver base.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  19. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Just went back to 3.49 as 3.50 did not suite my system for games. Now I have installed 3.49 youtube videos are broken for me. Displaying either blank or just a green screen....


    EDIT: And crossfire is broken, second card will not clock upto 3D clocks when gaming on my 4870x2 this is on 3.49
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  20. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    as for flash it's probably core problem related what ever the actual problem there is can't figure from that straight up. my best guess would be clean-up went badly some way.

    I'd probably simply do full clean as in uninstall the driver drop 1 time the clean up cmd BEFORE reboot & then after rebooted I would launch the 'force' cmd and then again clean up again (with yes to everything). This basically would reset anything there is in full scale. So, it's gonna really shake system up.

    and install v3.50 again to test or v3.49 as it was.

    -edit-

    Since there was also problem on flash side some CCleaner or other registry cleaner wouldn't be a bad idea as that would clean ActiveX and OCX components out. I actually doubt that v3.50 even had any issues it's just windows messing up now to think of it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010

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