AMD Catalyst (Modified Build)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by TwL, May 29, 2010.

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Should the Official INF be modified or not ?

Poll closed Jul 21, 2010.
  1. Yes (I want to go through registry and copy GUIDs to .reg file and add changes separately.)

    5 vote(s)
    8.9%
  2. No (Functions should be editable as usual in CCC straight after install.)

    25 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Both (I want to have official INF in install, separated modified INF & 'Functions.reg' as choice)

    26 vote(s)
    46.4%
  1. GaBBa-Gandalf

    GaBBa-Gandalf Member Guru

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    So you would recommand still your 5.10?
     
  2. thehippo

    thehippo Member

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    How would they be changing the texture's quality through drivers? Limiting texture size?

    Which specific drivers did you notice the low quality textures?
     
  3. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    Been thinking this for sometime. Would be sweet to have for top end GeForce cards, but happen to own a lot of AMD hardware.

    I don't know these days, if NVIDIA side is any better, but as far I've looked on how AMD/ATI handle the unknown content NVIDIA is 100% currently
    better on that area. As their 'default' is not to screw up everything on screen like on every AMD driver since Catalyst 9.xx.

    Where:

    * NVIDIA acts as 'we are slow sure, but everything comes to screen'
    while same situation:
    * AMD/ATI lair is 'We disable what ever on application we can as we don't understand the application and at least our hardware is fast'.

    This is the game breaker what makes NVIDIA currently almost sure pick of graphics hardware instead of AMD and something like modified catalyst can
    only fight against this functionality, but as of drivers currently this has become pretty impossible mission. Only the 'Alpha' (and REALLY rare 'Beta')
    drivers of AMD seems to remove sort of restrictions.

    No I would not. I would recommend usage of (11.7)/<any> Alpha driver currently only the 11.7 seems to draw correctly. However comes with another bugs.

    I removed the 5.10 from main page as it's not ideal on some situations. We need new modded driver, but I am tight up on work and really little on time
    currently. (heck, even my project folder has stand still for past months only because I simply didn't have time while 11.8 was released to mod a new set).

    We need combination of 11.6b on CrossfireX setups and 11.8 fixed to single cards and AMD/NVIDIA hybrid setups and somebody on AMD driver team
    needs to damn look on how Intel SB PCI-Express 2.0 restricts their cards and optimize accordingly.

    Look what I answered robolee above on this message.

    They are not 'restricting' they are defaulting to '0' as in no show, if unknown by profiling/driver. This has nothing to do with 'low quality'. AMD simply is
    ignoring to code by API and instead uses application detection.

    What I meant before was application code. Games do not have detail (for example we can compare Bioshock the first DX10 game to anything out on market DX9-11 and mostly nothing comes even close). Quality goes really low currently on gaming market.

    (perhaps we are returning to MS-DOS where only thing cool about the game is the start-up movie and then we get nethack 22 rows and moving @ sign attacking the + and - again for DX11 ;P)

    Just saying shouldn't we be improving through sequels of games. Game companies has the data already yet decides to use none of it and try to
    build completely new while there was nothing wrong with old where they could of simply use the same time half the people and simply create maps
    and story to play (Maybe a perfect example here would be 'Alpha Prime', 'doom').
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  4. Killer344

    Killer344 Member

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    MSI N580GTX Twin Frozr II
    so.... after 10 years of ATI I think I'm gonna sell the 5850s and get a single gtx 580... I don't have the time to mess around with drivers anymore.
     

  5. chest_rockwell

    chest_rockwell Member

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    cfire 5850 1gb
    I dont-wont-cant ever switch to nvidia card.)sorry for language faults)
    Only reason is this: my friend has the same cpu-mobo and all but one thing: hes got a gtx470. While I can crank up aa to extreme levels in bfbc2, his machine hits 40-50fps only with ingame 8x AA setting. While I can play gta IV like photorealistic, he cant. I purchased my 2 5850's for a same price of his gtx470. so how is this gonna help? If I had money I would build nvidia SLI, +1000watt power supply, +water cooling too..... theres no point in NVIDIA too this is just my humble opinion. sure they got a better development team behind their software/drivers. hell they even got companies making them physx games so they can show it off to kids.. but thats not even reasonable, I meam they got so many bs on their products too.
    I hope some of these days amd guys just find out about the thread and hire twl & all problems solved (mad positivity) :D
     
  6. pixoide

    pixoide Member

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    Been unlogged for a whille but still following this thread on a daily bases. 2 things: NVIDIA purelly sux. My friend's GTX470 and i7 (stock speeds) perform a lot worse than my i5 @ 3.6 ghz and 5850 @ 850/1200. It's a fact that games on my rig look beautifull and a lot smoother than on his. That's obviously even better after having TWL's drivers installed, cause I have no stutering or mouse lag.(Nvidia stutters like mad!). So I just say: NVdia is a piece of crap hardware surviving on marketing and software. AMD may have **** driver development but they Do make the best Cards. They only need TWL on their team xD. Long live the KING!
     
  7. Killer344

    Killer344 Member

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    woa... I should have expected so much fanboyism. :puke2:.

    The hardware is only 50% of the pie... if the software fails, everything else fails.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  8. pixoide

    pixoide Member

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    I may be a fanboy, but what I said is not fanboyism, its just the facts. AMD has a lot more potential due to its depending on beter software to show its stuff off. Nvidia on the other side, as any, has a limit to whatever their drivers can do and that is far below AMD's. And about your 50% of the pie line... it works the other way around too or it wouldn't be 50%.
     
  9. k1net1cs

    k1net1cs Ancient Guru

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    @Killer344
    The amount of ignorance of the two posts above you is astounding at the least.


    @chest_rockwell
    Then specify the make & model of said cards, both your 5850s and your friend's 470, whether you bought it from the same store and/or bought it new or used, and whether you bought it around the same time frame as your friend.

    Btw, only BFBC2 and GTAIV?
    Care to test other games?


    @pixoide
    So, you're basically comparing an OC'd i5 to an i7 with default BCL, and an OC'd 5850 to a 470 with default clocks, and say yours are faster.

    No sh!t, Sherlock. :3eyes:
     
  10. Killer344

    Killer344 Member

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    MSI N580GTX Twin Frozr II

    Over the past years I had:

    Single 4850.
    4770 Crossfire.
    Single 5850.
    Single 6950.
    5850 Crossfire.


    Next sunday I'll grab an used MSI GTX 580 Twin Frozr II from ebay. After so many cards from AMD I think I'm more than qualified to give a non biased opinion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011

  11. sambul81

    sambul81 Member

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    TwL

    How your modded driver release numbers correspond to ATI Catalist release numbers? I.e., does your last available driver 5.10 correspond to Catalist 10.12a as 2-nd post seems to claim? Why don't use matching release numbers (or matching folder numbers in download section) to avoid user mix-up and the need to scroll through 100+ posts?

    In what your drivers are different from regular Catalist drivers? Do they combine gaming, HDTV and FireGL functionality, making all available on a single card at the same time depending on the application used? Your 1-st post doesn't clarify the purpose of your mod series - why?

    Can this AMD Catalyst™ Preview Driver – OpenGL 4.2 Beta be modded to deliver FireGL functionality? Is it a better driver to modify to unleash FireGL than Catalist 11.8 stock driver? Or it can be used instead of FireGL driver without a notable difference in features and rendering speed?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  12. chest_rockwell

    chest_rockwell Member

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    cfire 5850 1gb
    @ k1net1x
    sure, ill explain. but I need to correct something: its a 570 not a 470, sorry for mistake. long summer got my brain sponged lol.
    mines are 2 sapphire 5850 one of them is xtreme version lately came out which sucked at overclocking; other one is the vapor-x version. his gtx570 is not evga or zotac, only a sparkle with stock clocks. We both get the cards from same online seller at discount weekend prices.Best deal we can get where we live.

    hmmm..lemme think..
    of course we did tests but that was months ago and I will share the all I can remember with you (I will only write which Im sure of remembering correct):
    3dmark11 extreme preset or any preset: my friend almost had his card return after the tests thats all I can remember. cos I told him to buy 2 amd instead of buying single 570 at a higher price, 1 week later we plugged it in scores were bad. I dont want to pollute TwL/Genetix Thread I will simply write the other titles im sure we got tested and 2 stock 5850 is better: dirt2&3, call of pripyat and other 2stalker titles, cod mw titles, crysis titles, world in conflict, CoH, thats the games I remember surely we tested and 2pair of 5850's got ahead single 570.

    btw I checked: in my country, 570 is still 400 bucks.more expensive than 2 5850s. this is just the way things are where Im living. wish I have chance to order best cooled and looking evga 570 card from newegg at discount. amd is cheap here and nvidia isnt cuz ppl buy amd more and I dont think this will chance. Situation is this like here, Im not sure how it is in rest of the world.

    personal message to TwL: sorry for polluting the thread with wall of writing.
     
  13. CMDRSweeper

    CMDRSweeper New Member

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    GPU:
    ATi Radeon 5970 + 5870
    Actually TWL have already rigged that, either with intent or just blind luck.
    I have the same problem since I got 2x 24 inch and one 23.4 and ATi removed Bezel compensation, theirs even read the EDID directly from the monitor rather than the driver!!!

    However, TWL must have fixed it, because if you edit the EDID in the driver and force Windows to use that, the modified TWL Catalyst ACTUALLY enables Bezel compensation!
    So presently I have that enabled and I do not understand why ATi is being so anal about it.

    But one thing for sure, I do not want the crappy Nvidia stuff that seems to go poof after 2 years or have loads of driver bugs.
    Kinda glad the last NV card failed on me, got my money back and invested it in a 5870 that gave me tripple screens...
     
  14. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    First of you need exactly 2 first posts.

    As for version numbers they do not correspond to CCC version numbers as there might be as there has been maybe 10 drivers build based on same
    release because there is only singular releases from ATI/AMD driver team which happen to be good time to time as base for modded drivers. So, I
    decided to build against vX(main build when something huge is updated).Y(when driver versions are changed)Z(Builds against known
    drivers currently aka. next beta or what ever can be improved from main build further).

    My drivers where based upon none functional display data + process power of hybrid AMD/ATI + NVIDIA systems originally also the idea of AMD
    blocking/not fixing purposely over a year an OCL functionality. So, I build functional drivers over that period of time also while at it improving specific
    DX API layers and OpenGL to make the balanced processing actually effect on modified builds against official catalyst. So, purpose changed actually at
    11.1 build from functionality correction to performance and DXVA functionality corrections including proper base to install the driver to as in
    clean installation style.

    You can't just mod an FireGL functionality, heh. My drivers has nothing to do with FireGL functionality. Where that whole idea came from was from
    yourself. Ideally yes FireGL functionality would be included, but you would need hell a lot more to make the driver + all the applications to detect or
    use such functions would need hex edit the actual FireGL drivers not any normal CCC build even while some are based to FireGL drivers.

    Well, this actually was kinda hit-n-miss. Since we needed an CFX and more over triple screen QFX system working here. So, had to build some of the builds based over very very restricted drivers.

    The honest truth is I stille can't get it working over something like current Alpha releases or the really new releases. So, can't exactly say I could break it. :)

    @commonly

    Well, got this weekend pretty good time on my hands as nothing on table and dropped out last laptop this morning, so, I'll try to continue my
    modified drivers perhaps I can get something done by today/tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  15. sambul81

    sambul81 Member

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    TwL

    Thanks for clarification. For a novice like me it was unclear, what your mod was for...

    As to your current effort, hopefully you will look not only at regular Catalist 11.8, but also at Catalist OpenGL 4.2 Beta to see which one is the best to include in your mod.
     

  16. CMDRSweeper

    CMDRSweeper New Member

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    Well keep up the good work with it regardless TWL.
    For me the older build I presently run works nicely, EXCEPT it doesn't have OpenCL support and some of the newer gizmos.
    But the bezel correction is without a doubt, the best feature.
     
  17. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    Well, old ones were really good I am still using something like v3.95 builds for CFX here and newer builds for single card setup.

    11.7 was pretty good but not for EyeFinity or CFX where as 11.6b did pretty good job as of functionality, but that again is damn slow even to compared
    to my mods. These new drivers works somehow, but they are really far reach from functionality. Half the Video section is totally unfunctional,
    something like 'overdrive' is unfunctional as well as most of the other displays settings screws up way or another depending on system.

    and top of all AMD driver team haven't even looked to how the Intel side PCI-Express works on SB boards. Their streaming concept is directly build
    against it after something like 10.12, lol. (not saying this wouldn't be Intel Corporation causing issues with their lame SB iGPU setup restricted
    PCI-express including unclosable iGPU even on p67, but fact how the data is push to screen by AMD graphics hardware while loaded on to the card is just bad).

    I actually was looking in to 11.6b, 11.7, 11.8 preview and skipping clean up 11.8 WHQL 11.8 OGL 4.2. This is because the OGL 4.2 is unfunctional in a
    sense that it breaks earlier standards and earlier standard are 10 times more useful that the new OGL. If it would be up to me modded driver would
    still use 10.4 OGL files OGL 3.3 and what goes to 11.8 WHQL seems only thing good about it is the name. :)

    but there's multiple other things bothering me currently than what OGL to use. Here's few things:

    * Processing speed through compiler and runtime to OGL is bad. Only good driver was 11.7 which seems I can't use on again on really fast drivers like 11.8 preview was (not the new 11.8 WHQL or the OGL beta).
    * The DXVA at all new drivers above 11.2 are buggy. Heck I am surprised that 11.7 error correction is so fast it can handle all the crap on these new ones.
    * Application Profiling: The 'High Quality' settings disabled Application profiling paritially. Problem is this also removes fixes, lol. I mean seriously
    this is something totalled by AMD driver team. First they even build the profiling following NVIDIA example which they can't seem to get straight
    and after all the hard work they have done to actually display graphics / applications correctly they screw up on handling the data.

    and on top of all that crap nothing else doesn't seem to work properly on CrossfireX systems (not to even mention EyeFinity + QFX) than CCC 11.6b.
    So, this means even while you could get an 11.8 drivers to system you would have to use 2-3 months old files to actually utilize the hardware and
    the display setups like EyeFinity wouldn't still work correctly. Funny thing about this is that we have fight this for past 16 months now and AMD still
    can't get their stuff straight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  18. sambul81

    sambul81 Member

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    TwL

    Thanks for clearing up your modding plans. You mentioned above your cleaning system - currently Genetix Cleaner v4.91. Please explain, in what sense it's different from Driver Sweeper and Driver Cleaner (updated to Win7 versions can be downloaded from their websites)?

    I had some issues in the past, when updating Win 7 with SP1 after using these programs, but now according to their forums, new Driver Sweeper no longer removes ATI files supplied with OS, and the same is true for Driver Cleaner. Why AMD doesn't recommend to use ANY uninstaller except CCC own, when changing drivers?

    So, how your Cleaner is different? Does it fully remove CCC 11.8 files and Registry entries from Win7 64-bit and Win Server 2008R2 desktops? Does it remove MS AMD drivers and files as well, thus making impossible future OS upgrades without OS Repair? Is it beneficial in general to remove MS generic AMD drivers before installing any new driver? Can their files affect each others work?

    Also, do you think, Windows Server R2 64-bit may be missing some core OS files, required to fully use Radeon and FireGL drivers and CCC functionality compare to Win 7 64-bit? Any way to add such files to the server - its very convenient to use as a light and fast workstation, but some CCC and FireGL installs don't list it as a supported OS, and other do - do you know why?

    Also, can you answer this question, since no-one else possibly knows that. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  19. pixoide

    pixoide Member

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    ...ok; gtx 470 (superclocked) gpu clock: 625mhz/mem 1280MB@1674 mhz---My oced 5850: 850mhz/mem 1024MB@1200 mhz. (it's a slower gpu ok, but memory is more and well faster)
    (didn't boder checking price diference between the two; maybe you'll wanna do that, dear Watson).

    And about the oced cpu my ignorance and inexperience tell me that it doesnt really make that much diference being that a stock i7 doesn't seem to bottleneck that nvidia single card - even in graphical benchmarks like heaven unigine, oced cpu makes very little diference, as long as gpu isn't bottlenecked, as I heard.
    Almost forgot... try making dinner on that gtx 470 after 10 mins playing a good game. You'll never wanna use your microwave ever again. And don't forget your ear plugs.

    Please keep enlightening me, thank you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  20. TwL

    TwL Ancient Guru

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    The cleaning system here is much more advanced than any other on web. Ideally it's an exact removal by detecting on system driver files including
    unknown types and does proper job currently for clean installation type (which for example NVIDIA added now on new drivers AMD has a bit reach
    to actually do an clean installation and they again trust that old setup data is correct for new installations).

    Driver Sweeper is pretty good it removes also activeX files, but the problem is most of the cases 'Driver Sweeper' does not do what it's supposed to be
    doing and ending up to system not bootable as the software maker idea of 'when to clean up' over reboots is incorrect and so there are locked files
    while it's cleaning up.

    As for so called OEM ATI files. heh, yeah those are a bit tricky to find scripted and so are the 'GUID' based data. However, the cleaning system
    v4.xx I build actually can detect 'GUID' and base the removal against it. So, random user IDs are not an problem on my clean-up as they are on other
    clean-up softwares and anything already on System Core will be cleaned. (however, I should mention that this comes with an issue of backup as
    basically v4.xx didn't backup the OEM driver data while I should of because Microsoft service pack installations needs clean hash to be installed. Need to
    fix this issue on v5.xx I was building a bit yesterday. Ideally clean-up would save the backup for people to be able to upgrade service pack to their systems, :) )

    Nope, Server R2 is not missing any files. As I said you can't just jump from Radeon to FireGL. currect ATI flashing softwares does not allow flashing the
    core GPU card IDs only software visible IDs so flashing from Radeon to FireGL is out of the question. (I have not figured out a way to do clean
    flashing and there is no support from the ATIFlash maker as far I've asked). So, that leaves only 1 way to go and that is hex edit so AMD software thinks
    your Radeon is an FireGL and utilizes the card accordingly, but this again comes with issue of identifying an new FireGL cards hardwareIDs against
    much faster produced Radeon cards. If we would have the IDs we could mod any card, but seems there FireGL bricks on web are not that willing to
    dump the BIOSes to web and so you understand why <any card> mod to FireGL is impossible. (Also requires FireGL version of software, btw)

    OpenCL is very well currently developed by AMD however software developers are not exactly going for this yet as OpenCL needs to mature
    and NVIDIA driver team is holding whole OpenCL back by not releasing drivers for people (even while R280.xx did have OpenCL 1.1 support).

    We also are currently fighting with compute power combining. The CPU and GPU power can't be combined as of yet and crappy code of all 3
    manufacturers are all standalone crap on system only visible on their own hardware (lame, if you ask me) as in ATI/AMD, NVIDIA, Intel code also
    execution is bad as each needs own style of loading modules and on AMD/ATI side the core count is restricted on any CrossfireX systems.

    It's not used only for DXVA, lol, it's used where ever it's coded on software and it's actually not used by DXVA at all. You'll be just fine on video acceleration without AMD APP/OpenCL. :)

    Most ideal location is Video encoding on some apps (like TMPEG Enc, Cyberlink/WinDVD etc etc software), but we haven't even seen what
    OpenCL is capable yet(This again is because thanks to Microsoft and their 50 times slower DirectCompute is system level supported and so most of
    developers turn to DirectCompute and not to OpenCL) as on hashing, multi-threaded compression, main physics acceleration and all in all Operating
    Systems offloading threads.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011

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