Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by asder00, Mar 23, 2015.
im glad someone else said it.
every time i try, i get accused of being an apologist.
"Vulkan" will do no better than OpenGL has done in the past. Developers are not going to abandon DirectX for "Vulkan" on Windows. Btw, the reason OpenGL never gained the traction it "should have"....is because OpenGL drivers have historically been a complete cluster ****, along with slow development of the API.
If you think NVidia lied, you should go look at all the hype AMD's marketing department built up for the Bulldozer launch. Then maybe you'll understand why it was among the biggest product failures AMD has had. AMD hyped it up as the greatest architecture ever produced, with unparalleled performance.....and it failed in every aspect. On paper, it was untouchable. Unfortunately, reality was exactly the opposite.
AMD's marketing department is exactly why there's an NVidia GPU in my specs. Had they just admitted that they failed with the R9 290(X) cooler, I'd have grabbed an R9 290 and an aftermarket cooler. Instead, they stupidly claimed that operating at 95C provided the best performance.... The only saving grace for AMD with me at this point is their Linux drivers and the upcoming "Zen" architecture. NVidia's Linux drivers are horrid to deal with, whereas AMD's are nearly idiot proof. I've actually got a Linux system running an Athlon 5350 and R7 240. My next CPU upgrade won't come until after "Zen" based CPUs get released and my next GPU upgrade won't come until after the R9 400 series gets released (if they actually launch on time). If AMD practices honest marketing, I'll buy both.
I've been silent about everything up until this point, but I feel like I should express myself and give my opinion.
I respect AMD to an extent, but that level of respect rises and decreases depending on how they treat their customers. We're not obliged to love and respect them no matter what they do; nor should you. In fact you're disrespecting yourself if someone lies to you or misleads you and you don't tell them off for it. So I didn't have a problem with those who criticized AMD for what they done; and AMD deserved every bit of criticism. The problem is, and I'm going to agree with you guys here, some people don't know how to criticize without being insulting (there's no need for insults - it's not allowed in this forum, and at least respect the forum enough to respect that rule).
So yes I am extremely disappointed with AMD and how they handled this situation... PS: I still haven't got VSR working, no matter what I do; every time I tick VSR to enable it, it vanishes. None of the patches worked nor anything I've tried.
On note we still don't know why exactly it's not on other cards. There's reasons. Maybe because of the bugs that we seeing now. Yes i have some disappointment but we need to think further to see in their shoe's.
Read the references I posted please. Vulkan was even presented by Valve people, this won't be the "every GPU manufacturer puts in a custom extension" cluster****, and it is going to run on anything and everything, from iPhones to Windows PCs to Android devices, Linux installations, you name it. DOTA 2 is already running on it, and the thing is just finalized.
It already has traction with major publishers and all of the major engines either already support it or they will.
Mantle was an experiment, and a successful one at that. It gave us GLNext and made Microsoft to move of their DX11 asses for once.
Also, even though I have a GCN 1.0 card, Mantle was just fine. Thief and BF4 and DAI were good with it, and Civ Beyond Earth was one of my best experiences in gaming lately because of how smooth the damn thing is.
Bulldozer was (and still is) in many respects a very very nice parallel CPU architecture. The single threading performance leaves things to be desired, but the multithreading was unparalleled.
Your comments are so aggressive and without any real evidence that you make me sound like an apologist, and I am far from being one.
Hmmm...from what I understand, GL Next or what is now called Vulkan may or may not contain Mantle instructions. It's claimed AMD gave the Khronos group access to Mantle and worked with the group as did Nvidia and others...I just don't buy your inference giving AMD credit for creating it.
"Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle."
Uh...because someone from AMD ie Robert Hallock Head of Global Technical Marketing at AMD said it. All sources from the wiki article cite the same blog post. I've seen nothing from the Khronos group.
Considering every time we ask for something, you say something along the lines of
"works fine here", "no point crying, you're not getting it", "no scaler, hence no VSR for 7000"
and yet each time we end up getting what we had asked for:
1) BF4 Mantle Vsync fix (patch by DICE)
2) CPU optimizations (AMD recently hired the guy to work exclusively on this)
3) Wide VSR support
im not sure you should wave high your credibility flag.
Regardless what 'experts' and those in the know are telling us, it seems that crying and complaining actually works
No, it's true. Vulkan is borrowing heavily from Mantle.
Khronos even made the big "Thank you AMD" in their recent presentation.
I'm being accused of being aggressive, yet I stated a fact and was attacked (as seems to be standard in this section anymore) for doing so. Apparently someone doesn't understanding the meaning of the word "aggressive".... Maybe the issue is that I have the specs for my "gaming" system listed and not my Linux system that runs on AMD hardware. I'd be willing to bet if I changed my specs, the attitudes of the fanboys would change as well. Oh, that's right. I've already proven that several times in the past.
Btw, Mantle didn't force Microsoft to start developing DX12. Quite the contrary. DX12 was already in development. It takes years to write a hardware dependent API. Microsoft didn't just wake up and go "AMD announced a new low-level API, we need to develop DX12 and get it out the door ASAP!" If they had waited until AMD announced Mantle, we'd still be waiting for DX12 to be announced.
Being "derived from and built upon" does not imply a "copy and paste" as PrMinisterGR claims.
Sorry but trying to state that Khronos didn't utilize Mantle tech in Vulkan is just impudent.
C'mon now everybody can express their opinion.
You can have a different experiences on the same hardware then me.
Some can play @ 30fps and some don't even find 60fps enough.
If you don't think something is an issue while somebody else does.
Does it make it so that one of them is BSing?
No everything is subjective to each and every person.
So let's be civil and show some respect to each other.
If somebody is unhappy with how AMD does business, let them be as they have every right to complain.
As it is their opinion or personal experience and who are we to tell different.
Wow. Downsampling and frame limiter. Shame its not for w7 because i just cant like w8
I'm not sure if it doesnt work on W7.
Can someone who has played around with that a bit tell maybe?
Install a start menu replacement...
In modded drivers if VSR check box dissapear it doesn't mean always you don't have VSR.
The dissaparence always (?) occurs when you add registry entries trying to fix crossfire flickering (still no success here )
I have working VSR in desktop with CF/wCF and games without CF without the checkbox.
Look the resolutions avalaible for your monitor.
I.e.Here you can see mine:
Blue circle: Recomended resolution and the maximum real resolution supported by the monitor.
Red underline: VSR resolution avalaible from in normal driver
Red circle: VSR resolution added from modded driver
If you see resolutions on your settings higher the real maximum on your monitor they SHOULD be VSR resolution.
First things first. These are the Vulkan presentation slides from the Khronos Group itself.
These are the companies supporting Vulkan:
There were presentations from all major publishers (except Ubisoft).
This is how the official Khronos Group presentation starts:
With a standing ovation for AMD opening up Mantle
And the slide next after that is:
Keep in mind that that room is full of NVIDIA people, and the President of the Khronos Group is an NVIDIA executive.
All the things on top were from Khronos Group presentations. Neil Trevett who is the president of Khronos and an NVIDIA executive said in PC World: "Many companies have contributed to Vulkan and SPIR-V—Mantle gave us a tremendous head start—but Vulkan is definitely a working group design now. Multiple hardware companies demonstrated early Vulkan drivers at GDC - including Imagination, Intel, and Nvidia—ARM also reported on their driver performance."
I didn't even look at your specs. My problem is that you sprout things without even providing a shred of evidence.
If you go around developer forums you'll see that Mantle/Vulkan is a way to break free from DirectX and the immense baggage it puts on the drivers. Direct X 12 was Microsoft's way of reacting to that. If we follow your development time logic, what does that tell us about DX12 appearing in a usable form almost three years after the introduction of Mantle. That sounds like the response time of somebody reacting, not someone who is ahead. This is a good read, but I doubt you will read it.
See the presentation please. Vulkan calls are copy-paste Mantle calls, with the "vk" suffix in front of them. What changed was the shader language because it had to be cross-vendor.
Please have a look at this: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uplo...y/2015-gdc/Valve-Vulkan-Session-GDC_Mar15.pdf
This are slides from the Khronos/Valve/DICE/Oxide/Epic GDC presentation.
Some bullet points:
1. Big "Thank You" for AMD on page 6.
2. "Mantle pioneered & led the way" on page 8.
3. "Based on Mantle – standardizes & replaces it" on page 10
Also on page 10: "Frostbite will transition our Mantle renderer to Vulkan".