AMD Big Navi Would Yield 40-50 percent more than the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. Maddness

    Maddness Maha Guru

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    Live long and prosper my friend
     
  2. moo100times

    moo100times Member Guru

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    I heard a rumour Big Navi was >150% faster that 2080 Ti. Oddly enough it was Liv Tyler saying it to me whilst we were eating ice cream.


    I accept this could have been a dream
     
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  3. chainy

    chainy Member

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    Dude what are you on about? Talking bout mining prices, when mining declined AMD was way cheaper then Nvidia, even in the uk...add £50 = total nonsense..
     
  4. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    Its not nonsense at all, they are more expensive than Nvidia now, and have been for the past 5 years, since they went premium.

    Can't blame mining, not for the whole of the last 5 years :D
     

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    MCM on interposer like Zen 2 CPUs? There is no wasted space on IMC, it is same, just in different place. With I/O pins it is bit different and I agree. But raytracing capabilities of RDNA2 are tied to TMUs and shaders themselves. Sure, we could get more QuadCUs. But I believe AMD can calculate what is more cost efficient.

    Product you are betting on would likely have MSRP of $800.
     
  6. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    Bad launch, but a great card.
     
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  7. mikeysg

    mikeysg Ancient Guru

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    Eh, could you please let me know what you were smoking before you had that dream? I'd love to dream of Liv Tyler too....;)
     
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  8. Margalus

    Margalus Master Guru

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    That is why I posted this.
     
  9. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    Thanks for seeing a different perspective. I have been an enthusiast about 25 years now and have watched this over and over. Take for example Intel's 9900KS. The sole reason this was created was to chart top to make AMD look farther behind in single threaded benchmarks and high FPS games. Intel only sold that CPU a few months at high prices because they simply couldn't bin very many chips but they knew that up front. AMD needs to wise up on the marketing side. I don't want them pulling games but putting out extremely high end parts at very high prices(so you don't loose money making those extremely thin binned parts) markets your products more than I think many realize.

    A halo product in my mind is one that is so costly that the vast majority of people won't/can't afford it. Its a very low volume product like the Titans/TI's. AMD did this back in the Athlon days with the FX-57 CPU selling for over $1K and the last GPU I recall that I would put in this category from AMD was the Radeon 6990 which was a dual GPU beast. Anyhow It would behoove them to get back to making that next tier up going forward.
     
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  10. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    No. They probalby meant something like AMD X3D packaging, as announced on the Financial Analyst Day 2020. This would be 3D stacking, an improved version of "2.5D" stacking in the TSMC CoWoS interposer.
    It would be probably too costly even for a high-end GPU though - these are reserved for HPC products like multi-chip AI accelerators with each chiplet connected to its own stacked HBM2E, which currently use a very expensive 1700 mm2 "2.5D" interposer.

    Zen 2 "2.5D" interposer type that connects two chiplets with a dedicated I/O and GDDR6 memory controller die would make no sense for a GPU - the number of memory bus lanes will be overwhelming for a typical high-end configuration.
    It might make sense if each chiplet die comes with HGBM2E stacks on the interposer; could as well make a monolithic die and save on I/O pins though.

    500mm2 Vega64 wasn't $800, and a 350 mm2 Navi 2x with two HBM2E stacks is not going to cost $800 either.

    Sure, but compute shader units are more important, because raytracing pipeline uses shaders to generate rays and process the ray/geometry intersections, just like rasterization pipeline uses shaders to process triangles/meshes, texels, and pixels at various stages.
    http://intro-to-dxr.cwyman.org/presentations/IntroDXR_RayTracingOverview.pdf
    The AMD patent US20190197761A1 employs a very simple ALU on the TMUs to walk the BVH tree in order to re-use texture mapping data path, because it's also a memory access-intensive operation, so there is no substantial increase in TMU complexity and die area; the shader core only schedules which BVH nodes to walk and receives the results of the intersection comparison (claims #21-24).
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  11. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    I too remember those days of the original FX series. However, I think AMD have to work for a product like that now, I would love a product that pushes all the boundaries. I just don't see how it would make people want to switch over from NVIDIA though. If this logic was correct then the 1800X would of been the same price as the 6900K, wouldn't it? It beat it out in performance and halved its price. Now with subsequent CPU's AMD has been edging the prices up ever so slightly with each generation and I expect the same to be done for Zen 3 with the top end CPU coming in probably around $600 range (up from the $500 of previous generations). The new XT series was only to do 2 things, cling onto performance against Intel's 10 series but more importantly to reset AMD's pricing as 3000 series chips have lowered in price over time.

    I think AMD needs to bring this same mentality to the GPU front. In order to in a few years create your version of a halo product/brand. I would love a dual GPU design with some fancy new crossfire technology that makes it work as one GPU with 16-24GB HBM2 memory with 80-100% more performance than a 2080Ti.... I would gladly pay 2080Ti prices for that. But to many people AMD haven't earned it, just go to the AMD or Nvidia reddit pages and see the hate for AMD GPU's, the mocking, the memes, the brand overall is in a pretty bad state.

    But that to me isn't a halo product. Google definition "The halo effect is a term for a consumer's favoritism toward a line of products due to positive experiences with other products by this maker. The halo effect is correlated to brand strength, brand loyalty, and contributes to brand equity." This to me would be a product that builds a brands strengths, and creates a positive experience for the consumer and in tern making them a more loyal and regular customer. So something like the 9700 Pro, 8800GT, the 2500-2600K, Q6600 G0, iPod, HD7970, GTX970, and recently the Ryzen 3600/X. Product's that offers so much, for so little, that gives the consumers a good experience and turn makes them into a loyal customer and enhances the overall brand appeal.

    Each to their own, I hope that either way we get some amazing performing parts and some good competition for once. Having one clearly dominate brand is taking all the fun out of it for me and the coming of some seriously powerful consoles will just make matters worse if these new cards are priced stupidly high.
     
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  12. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Steve did say the words painfully slow in the RDR2 video review though.
     
  13. abula

    abula Master Guru

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    I really, really hope this is true.... but i somewhat doubt it. None the less, i do think AMD is making Nvidia release a high as they can out of fear of what can happen if they hold back.
     
  14. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  15. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    40-50% more power, 150-200% more cost. lol
     

  16. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I wonder if its not some sneaky leak by AMD that underplays the strength of big Navi to let Nvidia release less powerful (lower clocked) cards than they otherwise would. Then after Nvidia reviews are out, AMD bushwacks them with better than expected performance.
     
  17. kegastaMmer

    kegastaMmer Master Guru

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    i like how everyone is giddy about all this, more so than the actual products and their actual impact on fidelity/realism/gameSpec/immersiveness/ambience/atmosphere. The real game is on us.
     
  18. Andrew LB

    Andrew LB Maha Guru

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    So lemme get this straight. AMD is claiming their upcoming flagship card is 50% faster than the 2080Ti.... which is ~60% faster than the RX 5700 XT. So what they're saying is their new card is going to be more than twice as fast as their current flagship? heh... i'll believe that when i see it. The last card to double its predecessors performance was way back in 2006, and it was nVidia with the 8800GTX.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    AMD isn't claiming anything.
     

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