AMD announces Radeon VII (7nm)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Stop the spamming. You can find the worst RTX 2080 under 700€. You all here are finding radeon VII costs 100€ less from your arse? Stop lying. :confused:
     
  2. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Just mind you, once Nvidia is on 7nm as well, that advantage is gone. Navi will compete with Nvidia's 7nm though, so like I said, Navi is where it's at.


    What I find most interesting is, that they all bench those games under dx12. Which argueably, there is no reason to for Nvidia cards unless you run ray tracing (and maybe, in the future, DLSS). That's why I want to see real benchmarks, not just one here or there, a full suite will give us a much more comprehensive idea. Can't wait to read those!
     
  3. Memorian

    Memorian Ancient Guru

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    They showed Strange Brigade(Vulkan) where Turing is not performing well for some reason..Let's see how the new Vega performs in Wolfenstein 2(Also Vulkan)..Something tells me that Vega II won't be able to catch RTX2080 there..
     
  4. Halfmead

    Halfmead Master Guru

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    meanwhile in Denmark.

    Cheapest 1080ti (in stock) : 6999Dk = 1.080,75 $
    Cheapest 2070 : 3916 Dk = 605,10 $
    Cheapest 2080 : 5399 Dk = 834,25 $
    Cheapest 2018ti : 8999 Dk = 1.390,53 $
    ONLY RTX Titan : 20.990 Dk = 3.243,39 $ Rofl....

    Anyone saying the VII is too expensive should be ashamed... unless ofc you plan to play ONLY Battlefield 5 ;)
    Will be interesting to see the GTX 1170/80 and performance/price they offer, Quite happy AMD releases this card :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019

  5. Turanis

    Turanis Ancient Guru

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    RTX 2080 minim 650-690 euro.(edit:they changed now to 589 euro)
    Vega 64 minim 450-460 euro.

    On Topic:
    This card looks like a Vega 2 on 7nm.Navi is still "on the road",because of new Radeon team and more time to develop.
    700 euro for a video card with 16GB HBM2 is a great price,the performance will be ofc under 2080Ti.
     
  6. Remekra

    Remekra Member

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    I expected that they would not launch Navi now, just Vega 2 with a die shrink. This Radeon VII does not look bad, depends on what will the price in stores be and keeps them up in the high end. Yeah it does not compete with 2080Ti but at least they have something up there for the year.

    Currently I have GTX1080, wanting to switch to red team for some time now, but for me personally VII is not it. I was considering upgrade to RTX2080 and R VII seems like a good competiion to it, but I will have to pass on both of them. Don't see a game on horizon that could challenge 1080 right now.
    Seems the best upgrade path for me would be to buy this year Ryzen 3xxx (currently I have Ryzen 5 1600 OCed to 3.95 GHz), hoping that the 8 core sample they showed was Ryzen 5 (so the price would be nice) not 7, and next year upgrade to either Navi or whatever nvidia brings.
    It makes sense as it seems new consoles will also be out in 2020, probably sporting Navi + Zen 2.
     
  7. Exodite

    Exodite Ancient Guru

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    I'm not a GPU engineer by any means but I see HBM being questioned a lot in this thread I think it's missing some (semi-) obvious information.

    Vega 7 has fewer SPs than Vega 64 and minimally increased clocks (the base clock is allegedly 1450MHz, the 1800MHz number is the far end over which it will not boost - kinda like the p7 power state on Vega 10. Got this from a GN YouTube video.).
    The main differences compared to Vega 10 is doubling up on ROPs (from 64 to 128) and more than doubling memory bandwidth (to 1TB/s).

    Vega 10 is significantly memory starved, overclocking memory gives disproportionally large performance increases. I can only assume the ROPs were another limiting aspect of the architecture.

    So what am I trying to say?

    Vega is it's own architecture. You can't compare it to Turing, Pascal or even Polaris. Those might do fine with the bandwidth provided by GDDR 5/5X/6 but it's unlikely that Vega would.

    Thus it's likely that the answer to your, and several other people's question, regarding is HBM is - because they have to.

    AMD took the time to redesign parts of the chip - including the memory controller (to add more channels) so if the card would have done fine with GDDR 6 and going that route would have amounted to significant savings I'm sure they would have. They didn't, which tend to imply that it wouldn't.
    In addition this is pretty much an Instinct card and the additional memory bandwidth and amount are likely to matter even more for those kind of workloads.

    We all wanted a cheaper card and it's easy to get hung up on HBM because it's probably a significant part of the cost ($250-300 perhaps, GN estimated the cost to ~$150 for the 8GB on Vega 10 though the price may have changed since of course) but it's not like this was an oopsie by AMD, they know very well what the card needs.

    TL;DR The card uses HBM because it has to, choosing GDDR 6 to save some money wasn't an option.
     
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  8. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I generally agree with you: because they had to is the only reason that's viable.
    You are right, different architecture than Nvidia's, since they especially boasted about how they used new better compression algorythms back in the day when they dropped their memory bandwidth from 384 down to 256 the first time (Kepler I think?).
    Still, you might ask yourself, why holding on to a concept that's not helping? Why not redesign the memory controller straight away when they're working on the product?

    The more I think about it, the more I get the impression that this product is just wedged in because it's the natural successor of the Vegas we already know, and that Navi will do some things quite different (better?) than we see them now.
     
  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I'm not convinced GDDR6 would even save money. You'd essentially have to do some degree of redesign of the memory controller and have a completely separate production run for the GPU. The bandwidth/latency of HBM is required in datacenter so the Instinct MI50 this card comes was being built regardless. The engineering/production costs would be passed onto the card and GDDR6 itself is reportedly a lot more expensive than GDDR5/x anyway.

    I think this product is going to be replaced by NAVI in the sort-of-near future. I think RTX lineup will also be shorted lived - which is why they put the Ti out at the same time as the rest of it.
     
  10. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Don't forget that the 699$ for the Vega VII is without VAT so since you have 25% like we do in SE it will cost somewhere around 873,75 $ :)
     
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  11. FOG>Daheee

    FOG>Daheee Active Member

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    Was hoping for something better but judging by there history with disappointing GPU launches, I am underwhelmed as usual. Will wait to see what NAVI brings to the table, until then I am more than happy with my 980Ti.
     
  12. Exodite

    Exodite Ancient Guru

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    You got the answer in one I think. :)

    Generally speaking it's impossible to know the true Achilles Heel of any architecture before it's been released into the wild for a time. AMD has been strong on compute and generally does well on games that need a lot of heavy lifting, it's part of the reason why their cards have often come across as more forward-thinking or future-proof and we have this whole "fine wine" idea floating about.

    With that in mind it's likely AMD at least suspected that the weak points of Vega may have been the ROPs, we certainly know HBM2 didn't quite hit as high clocks for Vega 10 as they had hoped - nor the pricing.

    Vega 20 isn't a new architecture though, it's a refined one on a new node.

    No doubt Navi and what comes after that are going to do things differently, ending up with different limiting factors than Vega in the process, but that's not ready yet.

    In the end Radeon 7 is a stop-gap product, with Navi not releasing until much later in the year and the Radeon Instinct cards already being done I imagine it ended up a freebie due to 7nm yields being better than expected. As in, AMD didn't go into production with the expectation that yields would be good enough to provide a consumer product at a reasonable price (compared to Instinct cards) but they were and here we are.

    Would I have loved to see this card being even more competitive with the current market?

    Sure, we all would, but I'd rather have Radeon 7 now than nothing at all until Navi releases. Keeping in mind that I'm far more excited for big steps forward in midrange GPU power, as that's ultimately what's going to drive technical progress in the gaming industry.
     
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  13. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Yes guys, I too think you're right, this generation might not be as long lived as the last one (Nvidia) or rather soon replaced by something wholly new (AMD). I too was surprised that they put the 2080TI out with the lineup, and the Titan RTX following so quickly, instead of the Titan first, then sometime later the 2080 and downwards, then the 2080TI... we shall see soon.
    And yes, changing the memory and said controller might not have changed much about Vega2's cost. Although, they were ready to jump onto HBM with equal costs to design a new memory controller, get new expansive chips / stacks for it etc. Maybe we shall see some new cards with Navi which will indeed run GDDR6, with chiplet designs in the future it might be easier to add another I/O chip which could contain different memory controllers, or does it not work that way? (serious, non dissing question)
     
  14. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Can we not troll anymore? Thank you.
     
  15. slicer

    slicer Member Guru

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  16. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  17. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Radeon says 699$ msrp. In my country the cheapest rtx 2080 today has jumped to 712€. If you convert dollars to euro and include European taxes radeon 7 will be tha same or more expensive than the cheapest rtx 2080.

    How are you here saying radeon 7 is a hundred bucks cheaper? I see your trolling in my face. :)
     
  18. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    Based on the facts we know we should all invest in Nvidia stock right now. That 11xx line is going to be their best seller in 2019 compared to R7 and 20xx series with no game RTX tech! :D
     
  19. Mpampis

    Mpampis Member Guru

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    1) of course it is 2-3 generations behind, but they do have something to show for it. They can claim all the research cost them, and it really did. AMD on the other hand charge the same amount with only the die shrink, which should actually cost less as the chips are now smaller.
    2) I don't know what's stopping them from using GDDR5X or GDDR6, that alone would probably have reduced the cost significantly. Maybe it would cause a huge performance impact on the Vega architecture, but I haven't really come across any research suggesting this.
     
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Cost per transistor is higher on 7nm then 12/16nm + it's a new process so yields probably worse even at 300mm2.
     
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