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AMD announces Radeon VII (7nm)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    RTX 2080 is almost equal to a 1080 ti in performance. Yes, in some games, it's more. And, in some games, it's less. It really depends on the game and resolution.

    Saying one card is "insert percent here" faster then another card is arbitrary unless you're talking about an average between games and resolutions, of which there really is no website that does that. There's this:

    https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti/4026vs3918

    https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-AMD-RX-Vega-64/4026vs3933

    But it doesn't tell you much either, as again, there are many games the 2080 outperforms the GTX 1080 ti in, specifically at 1080p, by quite a margin.

    But considering you said you're compared 4K....i'm really questioning where you came up with the idea that, at 4K, the 2080 is "universally" faster then a 1080 ti. Most games, at 4K, put the 2080 and 1080 ti at pretty much equal.

    If you average all the 2080 vs Vega 64 here:

    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2080_founders_review,16.html

    You'll see a 29% difference between a 2080 and Vega 64, at 4K. Yes, i did get the differences between each game at 4K for the two and average them out, i'll even show my work. But this clearly shows that is the Radeon VII is 25% faster, then it very well could reach 2080 performance at 4K, especially given its fast HBM2 ram. ALSO, and this is important, unless hilbert wants to tell me i'm wrong, i don't believe that guru3d re-runs all of its benchmarks for every release of graphics card, which means that the Vega 64 results above in the linked guru3d article are likely from when they were released, a year and a half ago. So that certainly, if true, closes the 29% to 25% difference.

    More importantly you're saying 25% more performance vs Vega 64 at 4K, but that's not what was said, it was 25% more at the same power draw at 4K. We don't know if they will have the same power draw.

    And again i'd like to double back to your 2080 being faster then the 1080 ti at 4K, i'll run those numbers as well.

    The difference, again comparing all games at 4K on the guru3d review of the 2080, for the 2080 vs 1080 ti, is a whopping....3%

    Again, i'll show my work for both of those, and if you're wondering what all the numbers mean:

    There are 15 games tested, each #, example #1, #5, #8, etc. relates to each game on the website from top to bottom. Example again, #1 is Star Wars Battlefront II. #5 would be Deus Ex Mankind Divided, #8 would be Codemasters Formula 1 2018. And each number on each line is the percent difference between the two. If this doesn't make sense to someone, i don't know how to make it more clear.

    [​IMG]

    And yes, the 2080 vs 1080 ti has negatives in it, due to the fact that yes, the 1080 ti sometimes beats the 2080 at 4K

    And again i don't know where you came up with your numbers, because unless you do this math manually like i have just done, websites don't generally give you this information. They give you the information to do the averages, and choose which resolution you want, but they don't do it for you. You state the 2080 is 44.9% faster then the Vega 64 at 4K, and that does not hold true to guru3ds reviews at the least, and like i stated earlier, that does not account (likely) for the much better drivers that have come out since the Vega 64 was released, likely pushing the difference between them to the 20-25% range, again, at 4K.
     
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  2. Petr V

    Petr V Master Guru

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    AMD looks good now this year they get a lot of money.
     
  3. nizzen

    nizzen Master Guru

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    That feeling waiting for an Amd gpu that cost the same as an 2 years old 1080ti and perform the same.

    XD

    1080ti must be the best buy for years

    Used 1080ti for 450- 500$ is the deal of the day :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  4. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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  5. DW75

    DW75 Maha Guru

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    I think what AMD should do is lower the launch price of this card from 700 to 600. Number 1, this will convince way more people to buy. Number 2, it will force Nvidia to lower the price of the RTX 2080 to where it should be. That will be a great win for potential customers who are interested in either card.
     
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  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That feeling when someone thinks "GPU performance" = "Gaming performance".

    ...Ignoring all there is to GPU workloads. Yes that means 2080 is much better than 1080Ti, because it does do compute workload properly.
     
  7. Kohlendioxidus

    Kohlendioxidus Maha Guru

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    YES YES YES YES YES, Lisa bring this baby NOW NOWW. My 290x is waiting to be retired. Clear, this will be my day 0 (07.02.2019) upgrade regardless!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  8. ScreamerRSA

    ScreamerRSA Member

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    Hopefully there is a 8GB variant a ~$100 less than the 2080. Just to frack with nGreedia's pricing.
     
  9. Maddness

    Maddness Master Guru

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    Personally myself, i would have much preferred a Navi launch. But I'm hearing rumors that it needs another respin.
     
  10. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    So... I know I'm late to the party, so many posts already on the topic it probably feels like carrying water to the Danube, as they say here, only adding another opinion to many before me.
    I'll try to be as objective as I can be, pardon me for any comment that people might not agree like, but I'm not preaching the absolute truth, I'm just stating my opinion.

    So now we have a die shrink... this "new card" is nothing more than a die shrink. A die shrink that makes the card faster, and compared to the cheapest Vega64s I can buy here, it's still a great deal. So for anybody still having an older card, this looks like a good upgrade to me. The card itself probably is good as well, and we all know, it might be much more future proof than the RTX 2080 itself, when you look at it in say 3 to 5 years from now. If that's your upgrade cycle, and it's time, it might be a good buy.

    Also, this card does indeed look like they tried to do a little Titan thing here, aiming it not only at gamers but also content creators. I think this is a good move, since a 36% upgrade in creational tasks for 700$ might be quite interesting for man people, I can imagine (I don't understand much about content creation though).

    Performance wise, they brought out a valid upgrade from Vega64, and compared between AMD generations, I think that's pretty neat. Keeping up any standards like the software and Freesync 2 etc. is good too, so all in all, I think it's a solid GPU.
    That it does compare to a 1080TI / 2080... what did we expect? It's just a die shrink, it's not a new architecture. A 50% boost due to a smaller node was not going to happen anyway. It's a filler, but will it sell many SKUs? I doubt it. Like @tunejunky said in his post too, corner the supply or fulfill the demand... I think it will be much like Vega, where they rather corner the supply than push out endless chips. I think this card, for AMD's business plans, is aimed at content creation, keeping the spice flowing, and trying out the 7nm fab process with an easier chip than Navi might be. Not the most stupid thing to do, I have to say.


    I am not surprised about the price though. They did exactly the same as with Vega's first iteration, priced it to compete against Nvidia's matching performance. If that's the best strategy, I can't tell, but we're so used to AMD being the "cheaper" alternative that I have to admit, I sometimes forget that, why should they charge less for the same performance?

    Power consumption is irrelevant, nobody checks their electric bills after they buy a new GPU, that's just silly to think. People want fps, nobody sits down and does themselves a chart on how much they really save with a more efficient card. Also, I can imagine that since Vega works best undervolted (afaik), why can't this be the same thing here? That would change efficiency comparisons by itself. And if power consumption / FLOP or something like that is your main interest, go home you miner :p

    But... why HBM2? Does it bring such a big boost in content creation? Because by now we already know, it does not do so in gaming... GDDR5X is not crippling Nvidia, neither does GDDR6 in gaming (you see, they compare a HBM2 card here to a GDDR6 nvidia RTX 2080...) This just costs more money, and even though I like that they support the new tech, it does not do much more than give them good PR at the price of higher manufacturing costs (RAM price). But I think they couldn't really do anything but keep up HBM's memory controller in the Vega architecture... I'm curious to see how Navi will handle this, since from a gaming standpoint alone, HBM does not seem to be solving that many problems at all.

    When it comes down to having 3 games too with the card... for some that works, brings more value, for others it does not. I don't ever see that as a selling argument... also, in some countries, or some sellers, you just don't get such goodies, or can't claim them. Those 3 free games probably aren't valid to be counted into the price in 100% of the circumstances.

    So all in all, I think it's a good, but far from exceptional card / offer from AMD. They're doing a good job, but nothing that makes an enthusiast fall off his chair. But not horribly devastating either... we'll see price drops soon anyway, at the latest when Navi launches (still 2019), and new mid range cards also will appear (new architeture).



    And now, my personal opinion, very subjective, from my point of view as gamer, enthusiast, and owner of a 1080TI:

    No thanks. Does not impress me... costs the same as my card's MSRP was 2 years ago, brings nothing new to the feature game although it's delayed 2 years, and does not offer miracle performance. I won't change eco system (Gsync monitor bought before Freesync even was released) and upgrade with the hassle of selling my current card (and monitor?) for the same or 5% of performance... that's just not worth the trouble to me personally. Not even close to thinking about it tbh.

    I don't see this Vega2 performing that incredibly well in terms of sheer power, that card does it's job well, but it does not set any new standards for gaming... it's literally like arriving late to the party. So of course it's a little underwhelming because of the nature of being an enthusiast. If there are truely hints at any new features like @HWgeek mentioned they almost spoilered with the Division 2 dev, they should mention them. It would easily help sell more cards, but maybe that's not even what they want to do. Sell a few of these, and priming up the features for Navi, offering them vor Vega cards too then, but if we want to read in crystal balls and take wild guesses, you might as well say RTX will be in every game and card in 2020, so you might as well buy a 2080TI / Titan Turing now...

    So all in all, it will come down to Navi, once again. Sadly. For me personally, nice read, but I'll move on to other things like I'm more waiting on Zen's next generation ;)
     
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  11. HWgeek

    HWgeek Master Guru

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    Any one has Luxmark Score @ball for 2080TI/RTX TITAN?
    Since AMD posted the scores:
    [​IMG]
    If you Ask me- they released a killer card for content creators that gonna kill 2080TI sales at that segment ($$$ less issue for them).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  12. Maddness

    Maddness Master Guru

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    I think that sums it up perfectly. If this had of been $500, i would have preordered it now. Not at $700. That means about $1500 in my country.I also am now waiting on Navi to see what it brings to the table.
     
  13. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Really disappointing. I hoped so much for a kick-ass release and instead once again got old tech which once again has that stupid HBM which makes the card too expensive to be a serious competitor to nVidia. Okay, so AMD cannot muster a card which beats the 2080Ti, no problem, so the obvious path for me is to have a card that costs a lot less which this one doesn't.

    Another hilarious thing is the Elite specs for Division 2, either a Vega VII or a 2080Ti! I...don't think those two cards share the same ballpark, at all.

    When nVidia releases the GTX 1180Ti/1180 there will once again be no competition.
     
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  14. UnrealGaming

    UnrealGaming Ancient Guru

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    @Netherwind it was kinda disappointing, a year ago lol. It's been known for almost a year that AMD would release a Vega die shrink ( that may not even come to desktop ), and then a mid range Navi, with top end Navi gpus later in 2020.
    The only disappointing thing right now, is the pricing. This would've been a really solid 499$ card and an amazing 399$ card. And with the compute and bandwidth performance, would've been a mind blowing mining card, that you wouldn't be able to find in stock. Which still might happen, but very unlikely at 699$.
     
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  15. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    I think most of you is loosing the main point.
    They said they would be back in the competitve market, later. Not now.
    This is still a refresh that brings some competition since as of now there was no anymore.

    If this is 699 and does not bloat up, is still better than a 2070 that at 699 you cannot buy ( in europe )
     

  16. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

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    just to mention this isn't just a die shrink, it has twice the bus width and it supports new int4 and int8 operations among other things, it all amounts to an extra billion transistors, fact of the matter is that this is a compute card, not a gaming card, it was probably never intended to be released as a radeon, but obviously 7nm isn't as far along as amd(and nvidia frankly) expected when navi and vega first appeared in amd's roadmap. so they have to release something to keep them in the "highend" market. nvidia chose to explode their die sizes, and amd decided to take the 7nm risk production approach.

    the only bright side, is the 7nm vega seems like it could be a good overclocker, at the cost of probably needing a small nuclear reactor to power it:D
     
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  17. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Ah yes, I have to admit they changed something that I missed then. I was more trying to say, the most work will be done by Navi on 7nm due to both node and architecture being newer than Vega64.
     
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  18. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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  19. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Active Member

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    For my needs a 7nm gpu from nvidia or amd with 8GB of VRAM and performance similar to 1080 for under £300 would be fine as I currently have a 970GTX and the 3.5GB of ram is now not enough.

    My monitor is a 30 inch Dell 2560x1600 at 60Hz so the "nextgen 7nm" mainstream gpu will be good enough.

    I feel old fashioned writing 1600 for the screen. I love those extra pixels though :p
     
  20. slicer

    slicer Member Guru

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    That Vega isn't that bad considering it is competing against much much bigger die size of RTX2080.
    331mm2 vs 545mm2
    In that perspective it is amazing,
     
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