AMD announces Radeon VII (7nm)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    So... I know I'm late to the party, so many posts already on the topic it probably feels like carrying water to the Danube, as they say here, only adding another opinion to many before me.
    I'll try to be as objective as I can be, pardon me for any comment that people might not agree like, but I'm not preaching the absolute truth, I'm just stating my opinion.

    So now we have a die shrink... this "new card" is nothing more than a die shrink. A die shrink that makes the card faster, and compared to the cheapest Vega64s I can buy here, it's still a great deal. So for anybody still having an older card, this looks like a good upgrade to me. The card itself probably is good as well, and we all know, it might be much more future proof than the RTX 2080 itself, when you look at it in say 3 to 5 years from now. If that's your upgrade cycle, and it's time, it might be a good buy.

    Also, this card does indeed look like they tried to do a little Titan thing here, aiming it not only at gamers but also content creators. I think this is a good move, since a 36% upgrade in creational tasks for 700$ might be quite interesting for man people, I can imagine (I don't understand much about content creation though).

    Performance wise, they brought out a valid upgrade from Vega64, and compared between AMD generations, I think that's pretty neat. Keeping up any standards like the software and Freesync 2 etc. is good too, so all in all, I think it's a solid GPU.
    That it does compare to a 1080TI / 2080... what did we expect? It's just a die shrink, it's not a new architecture. A 50% boost due to a smaller node was not going to happen anyway. It's a filler, but will it sell many SKUs? I doubt it. Like @tunejunky said in his post too, corner the supply or fulfill the demand... I think it will be much like Vega, where they rather corner the supply than push out endless chips. I think this card, for AMD's business plans, is aimed at content creation, keeping the spice flowing, and trying out the 7nm fab process with an easier chip than Navi might be. Not the most stupid thing to do, I have to say.


    I am not surprised about the price though. They did exactly the same as with Vega's first iteration, priced it to compete against Nvidia's matching performance. If that's the best strategy, I can't tell, but we're so used to AMD being the "cheaper" alternative that I have to admit, I sometimes forget that, why should they charge less for the same performance?

    Power consumption is irrelevant, nobody checks their electric bills after they buy a new GPU, that's just silly to think. People want fps, nobody sits down and does themselves a chart on how much they really save with a more efficient card. Also, I can imagine that since Vega works best undervolted (afaik), why can't this be the same thing here? That would change efficiency comparisons by itself. And if power consumption / FLOP or something like that is your main interest, go home you miner :p

    But... why HBM2? Does it bring such a big boost in content creation? Because by now we already know, it does not do so in gaming... GDDR5X is not crippling Nvidia, neither does GDDR6 in gaming (you see, they compare a HBM2 card here to a GDDR6 nvidia RTX 2080...) This just costs more money, and even though I like that they support the new tech, it does not do much more than give them good PR at the price of higher manufacturing costs (RAM price). But I think they couldn't really do anything but keep up HBM's memory controller in the Vega architecture... I'm curious to see how Navi will handle this, since from a gaming standpoint alone, HBM does not seem to be solving that many problems at all.

    When it comes down to having 3 games too with the card... for some that works, brings more value, for others it does not. I don't ever see that as a selling argument... also, in some countries, or some sellers, you just don't get such goodies, or can't claim them. Those 3 free games probably aren't valid to be counted into the price in 100% of the circumstances.

    So all in all, I think it's a good, but far from exceptional card / offer from AMD. They're doing a good job, but nothing that makes an enthusiast fall off his chair. But not horribly devastating either... we'll see price drops soon anyway, at the latest when Navi launches (still 2019), and new mid range cards also will appear (new architeture).



    And now, my personal opinion, very subjective, from my point of view as gamer, enthusiast, and owner of a 1080TI:

    No thanks. Does not impress me... costs the same as my card's MSRP was 2 years ago, brings nothing new to the feature game although it's delayed 2 years, and does not offer miracle performance. I won't change eco system (Gsync monitor bought before Freesync even was released) and upgrade with the hassle of selling my current card (and monitor?) for the same or 5% of performance... that's just not worth the trouble to me personally. Not even close to thinking about it tbh.

    I don't see this Vega2 performing that incredibly well in terms of sheer power, that card does it's job well, but it does not set any new standards for gaming... it's literally like arriving late to the party. So of course it's a little underwhelming because of the nature of being an enthusiast. If there are truely hints at any new features like @HWgeek mentioned they almost spoilered with the Division 2 dev, they should mention them. It would easily help sell more cards, but maybe that's not even what they want to do. Sell a few of these, and priming up the features for Navi, offering them vor Vega cards too then, but if we want to read in crystal balls and take wild guesses, you might as well say RTX will be in every game and card in 2020, so you might as well buy a 2080TI / Titan Turing now...

    So all in all, it will come down to Navi, once again. Sadly. For me personally, nice read, but I'll move on to other things like I'm more waiting on Zen's next generation ;)
     
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  2. HWgeek

    HWgeek Master Guru

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    Any one has Luxmark Score @ball for 2080TI/RTX TITAN?
    Since AMD posted the scores:
    [​IMG]
    If you Ask me- they released a killer card for content creators that gonna kill 2080TI sales at that segment ($$$ less issue for them).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  3. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

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    I think that sums it up perfectly. If this had of been $500, i would have preordered it now. Not at $700. That means about $1500 in my country.I also am now waiting on Navi to see what it brings to the table.
     
  4. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Really disappointing. I hoped so much for a kick-ass release and instead once again got old tech which once again has that stupid HBM which makes the card too expensive to be a serious competitor to nVidia. Okay, so AMD cannot muster a card which beats the 2080Ti, no problem, so the obvious path for me is to have a card that costs a lot less which this one doesn't.

    Another hilarious thing is the Elite specs for Division 2, either a Vega VII or a 2080Ti! I...don't think those two cards share the same ballpark, at all.

    When nVidia releases the GTX 1180Ti/1180 there will once again be no competition.
     
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  5. UnrealGaming

    UnrealGaming Ancient Guru

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    @Netherwind it was kinda disappointing, a year ago lol. It's been known for almost a year that AMD would release a Vega die shrink ( that may not even come to desktop ), and then a mid range Navi, with top end Navi gpus later in 2020.
    The only disappointing thing right now, is the pricing. This would've been a really solid 499$ card and an amazing 399$ card. And with the compute and bandwidth performance, would've been a mind blowing mining card, that you wouldn't be able to find in stock. Which still might happen, but very unlikely at 699$.
     
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  6. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    I think most of you is loosing the main point.
    They said they would be back in the competitve market, later. Not now.
    This is still a refresh that brings some competition since as of now there was no anymore.

    If this is 699 and does not bloat up, is still better than a 2070 that at 699 you cannot buy ( in europe )
     
  7. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    just to mention this isn't just a die shrink, it has twice the bus width and it supports new int4 and int8 operations among other things, it all amounts to an extra billion transistors, fact of the matter is that this is a compute card, not a gaming card, it was probably never intended to be released as a radeon, but obviously 7nm isn't as far along as amd(and nvidia frankly) expected when navi and vega first appeared in amd's roadmap. so they have to release something to keep them in the "highend" market. nvidia chose to explode their die sizes, and amd decided to take the 7nm risk production approach.

    the only bright side, is the 7nm vega seems like it could be a good overclocker, at the cost of probably needing a small nuclear reactor to power it:D
     
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  8. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Ah yes, I have to admit they changed something that I missed then. I was more trying to say, the most work will be done by Navi on 7nm due to both node and architecture being newer than Vega64.
     
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  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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  10. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Master Guru

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    For my needs a 7nm gpu from nvidia or amd with 8GB of VRAM and performance similar to 1080 for under £300 would be fine as I currently have a 970GTX and the 3.5GB of ram is now not enough.

    My monitor is a 30 inch Dell 2560x1600 at 60Hz so the "nextgen 7nm" mainstream gpu will be good enough.

    I feel old fashioned writing 1600 for the screen. I love those extra pixels though :p
     

  11. slicer

    slicer Member Guru

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    That Vega isn't that bad considering it is competing against much much bigger die size of RTX2080.
    331mm2 vs 545mm2
    In that perspective it is amazing,
     
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  12. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    probably the more important thing is that the 2080 is 13.7 billion transistors, and the 7nm vega is 13.2 billion transistors, which effectively means they are as closely matched as you can get, it shows amd is able to be competitive at a design level.
    which is very good news. shows there might be some life left in radeon yet, despite all the shortcomings.
     
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  13. sarsar

    sarsar Member

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    Fanboy much? if you look at the games AMD posted results of and of the Battlefront V, FarCry 5 and Strange Bridgade in the 2060 review from Hilbert you will see that the numbers are correct (backed up by Hardware Unboxed's numbers) and that Radeon 7 is beating the 2080!
     
  14. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    That's true so there's still hope that Navi can bring something serious to the table. But it's difficult to ignore that the Vega VII price is a fail.

    We don't know that yet. For all we know it might be on par with the 2070 despite what Lisa is telling us. I trust HHs review in a month more than some cherry picked benchmarks. If it indeed turns out that the Vega VII is on par or slightly faster than the 2080 and costs 100$ less then AMD has done well.
     
  15. Petr V

    Petr V Master Guru

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    This is nice gpu.
    Can be intresting if this is not the top model.
    Radeon IX with more SP then 3840 can be great but we will see.
     

  16. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Stop the spamming. You can find the worst RTX 2080 under 700€. You all here are finding radeon VII costs 100€ less from your arse? Stop lying. :confused:
     
  17. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Just mind you, once Nvidia is on 7nm as well, that advantage is gone. Navi will compete with Nvidia's 7nm though, so like I said, Navi is where it's at.


    What I find most interesting is, that they all bench those games under dx12. Which argueably, there is no reason to for Nvidia cards unless you run ray tracing (and maybe, in the future, DLSS). That's why I want to see real benchmarks, not just one here or there, a full suite will give us a much more comprehensive idea. Can't wait to read those!
     
  18. Memorian

    Memorian Ancient Guru

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    They showed Strange Brigade(Vulkan) where Turing is not performing well for some reason..Let's see how the new Vega performs in Wolfenstein 2(Also Vulkan)..Something tells me that Vega II won't be able to catch RTX2080 there..
     
  19. Halfmead

    Halfmead Master Guru

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    meanwhile in Denmark.

    Cheapest 1080ti (in stock) : 6999Dk = 1.080,75 $
    Cheapest 2070 : 3916 Dk = 605,10 $
    Cheapest 2080 : 5399 Dk = 834,25 $
    Cheapest 2018ti : 8999 Dk = 1.390,53 $
    ONLY RTX Titan : 20.990 Dk = 3.243,39 $ Rofl....

    Anyone saying the VII is too expensive should be ashamed... unless ofc you plan to play ONLY Battlefield 5 ;)
    Will be interesting to see the GTX 1170/80 and performance/price they offer, Quite happy AMD releases this card :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  20. Turanis

    Turanis Ancient Guru

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    at Mindfactory (Germany)
    RTX 2080 minim 650-690 euro.(edit:they changed now to 589 euro)
    Vega 64 minim 450-460 euro.

    On Topic:
    This card looks like a Vega 2 on 7nm.Navi is still "on the road",because of new Radeon team and more time to develop.
    700 euro for a video card with 16GB HBM2 is a great price,the performance will be ofc under 2080Ti.
     

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