Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 3, 2021.
No ...a pc gamer would be frustrated
anyone read this news ?
"Part of those plans involve shutting down existing cryptocurrency mining projects by April 2021 and not approving any new ones. They also involve reassessing other energy-intensive industries like steel and coal."
not sure whether the news is true or what really happen in china, but hopefully it can make bring some good effect
if prices go back to normal imma buy every rtx30 and rx6000 card and alternate days
They will just move to another location...
As long as people continue to pour million on cryptocurrencies, nothing will change.
Our only hope is that the bubble finally bursts on a few months, then thing will slowly return to normality. Until then...
I wouldn call it a bubble anymore, it wont "burst" like last time.
Untill crypto gets regulated this won't change..
And as that happens, toll will be similar to c19.
what does crypto regulation mean opposed to how things are now?
Few months? Listen... This "bubble" will last until late 2021. And even if it falls down, it won't make cryptocurrencies magically unprofitable to mine. Miners kept on mining after the last bubble broke.
The difference right now is that many normal folks started mining Ethereum. (It's what I suspect) Ethereum mining difficulty has seen a 50+% increase in the last 3 months. I think we will see an increase in second hand cards real soon as newby homeminers start giving up.
As for the 6700XT, it will be a hard sell for miners. High price, low memory bandwidth. 5700XT seems to be the better miner.
Stifle its practical use.
let me add abit more related to semiconductor, aside that china closing down miners
as far eth, seems that the trend going down since late febs... well its can back up again or it can keep going down, its hard to predict
but at current state, people getting like $3~4/day? mining with 3060ti ... that what crypto-youtuber said
with current gpu prices, it can take a year before they paid for the gpu alone.
imo, gpu pricing also have some effect to miners, afterall they bought gpu to make them profit
while crypto related things seems get "stabilized"
the things is that we still having global chip shortage
from above, well i think we can get a bit of what we can expect in next few months...
supply will still limited, but pricing and supply hopefully little better than last few months
No one can argue the cost efficiency of the new consoles, they bring excellent bang for the buck. Especially game pass which gives crazy value.
However, you have to also consider everything else you are buying into and other things you are losing.
You become locked into a single corporations eco system,
including high prices for digital games,
your library becomes locked to that device or within that eco system,
your friends list, achievements, etc also become locked to that system,
your choice of controllers or input is severely limited,
your choice of games or software is INSANELY limited,
your choice of monitor/TV is also limited due to less video inputs,
multiple monitors is not supported,
mods become a paid eco system if supported at all,
headset support is again limited,
emulator scene is no existent,
choice of OS is again none existent,
upgradeability is yet again none existent (except insanely expensive storage upgrade),
no overclocking support,
multitasking with a controller is beyond a joke.
The list could go on and on,
You also compared console hardware to that of PC hardware.
Sure an XBSX comes with an 8 core 16 thread Zen 2 CPU, which is locked at 3.6-3.8GHz with zero boost, zero PBO, limited cache, and no word of any thermal throttling (if any). Last gen tech with even more things cut.
A 6700XT is in no way the same as the GPU inside the XBSX, the 6700XT has less CU's (40 v 52) however, the GPU inside the XBSX is clocked A LOT lower at 1.825GHz compared to 2.4GHz of the 6700XT which will probably boost even higher to around 2.5GHz on average. XBSX has no boosting and no word again of any thermal throttling which could happen in certain circumstances. The XBSX (along with the PS5) has no infinity cache to speak of, limiting the GPU even further.
Now we come to the memory subsystem inside the XBSX which is a mess, the SX and SS both have each 2 different memory setups. Each giving different bus width and therefore different bandwidths. Thats a total of 4 different memory setups for 2 consoles. This will cause huge headaches for developers going forward. The PS5 has a much better setup for memory just 1 pool all at the same speed.
Sure the cost for what you are getting is great, but realistically its more like high end laptop hardware squeezed into a box you stick under your TV.
another point to add,
a PC can also serve as a PC
didn't know console zen had cut down cache.
looking at xxxxG skus,it's a pretty big hit for ryzens.
this + low clocks,not exactly a great cpu,I'd be worried it might struggle to hit 60 at times,forget 120.
Anyway. Quite a few points @CPC_RedDawn made, are actually benefits. Some may not like that XSX does not have boosting. But it means consistent experience unless your room temperature is 55°C, or console is full of dust while you block top fan. They basically demonstrated how it behaves when you block its fan exhaust.
IF function, while improves data latency, serves primarily as way to hold data inside chip, so it does not have to go back into VRAM and get loaded again. (bandwidth conservation) which again XSX has plenty more than even 6900XT.
From gamer's perspective points like OS, multiple monitors, upgradability, ... are irrelevant. Those are benefits of actual PCs, but they are paid for by HW cost which is 3 times as high as HW in console.
If you took $500 console and built PC that would match its performance, you are at price tag with which you get console, extra controllers, VR headset and some game. And gamer gets it running instantly without building PC, without OS, driver installation. Because another (dis)advantage of consoles is that they work as designed.
HW itself in consoles is PC compatible HW. Would it be possible to run linux on them, PC component market would seen huge drop in interest while no console would be left on shelves for year.
Would consoles run windows 10, PC HW sales would drop drastically for lifetime of console. Because consoles would eat entire market from 6800 and down in price.
6700XT costs more than PS5-lite and is $25 from PS5/XSX.
thing is,you still need a pc.
and you're gonna like if it's fast.
stick a fast gpu in there and you've got a better gaming setup than any console.I'd rather commit to one since I need a PC anyway.
plus, what good is a 8/16 zen2 with a fast rdna2 gpu if you're gonna lock me to 30/60 fps and make use vsync and a controller.
I never doubted the hardware side is amazing for the price,I had a whole thread about it.But in the end it all depends on what you do with it.
ain't that friggin crazy ?
I can say that I never owned gaming console. Outside of one Chinese MP4 player which had (S)NES emulator. (gemei x720, I did put that hing through a lot and I still have it in storage)
So it is not like I am advocating my hobby. I do not like modern high tier consoles because I can't experiment with them.
But their value per $ is better than PC.
And yes, you are absolutely right, one still needs PC. But if it is not for gaming, very few people will need fast CPU, many cores, or more than 8GB ram. Any cheap laptop and today even tablets will do.
And memory bandwidth requirements of XSX/PS5 in contrast to desktop graphics with IF is crazy. It tells that giving GPU few hundreds MB of cache reduces big potion of GPU,->VRAM communication. Maybe even 192MB IF would be enough for 6900XT to not drop off in performance at 4K.
But that is question of economy. Do we want to pay extra for GPU that has large IF, or do we want more robust IMC?
AMD saved power thanks to decreased need to read/write data into VRAM. That's another thing to consider.
Because today, GPUs are mainly limited by power limits. And both AMD and nVidia look way too high with power limits over 300W.
When RX 6800/6900 GPUs can clock up to 2,8GHz, what does it say about 6700? It will clock in similar fashion, but it will hit power limit or VRMs capability (temperature) wall.
We are in point where GPU can clock really high, but it comes at high power draw cost. Future is not another improvement in architecture to achieve higher stable clock. Future is in reduction of power draw that enables to actually run at already available frequencies.
what the hell is infinity cache anyway ?
is it on-die ddr6 ?
is in on interposer ?
L3 Cache equivalent. Maybe some better connection through/to IF/IMC. And it is part of GPU.
Idea is energy conservation. r/w operation for IMC<->GDDR6 costs supposedly ~6 times more energy than just storing it in IC.
And its presence in GPU itself does not make it cheap.
yeah even 128mb must take a pretty chunk of the die given how small they are
it's still a bubble. And crypto is already regulated a lot. This article is a nothingburger.
But the end of this crazy mining might come sooner than we expect. Ethereum team is continuously getting more and more anti-miner. And ETH2.0 is PoS anyway. The future is settled for Ethereum.
Other coins are profitable too, but they ultimately aren't as useful and won't rise to crazy high prices.
Once ETH goes, the game is over for most miners.