AMD and Nvidia prep for next-gen DirectX 12

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    probabaly not unless the developer. decides to update the game to support dx 12, which most probably wont do
     
  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Member Guru

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    Yes, GTX 480 is DX12 Feature Level 11_0, it doesn't get "new features", only the benefit of the better API.
    GTX 970 is DX12 Feature Level 12_1, it supports all the new features of DX12 (but not to their full extent, as it's limited on some features to lower tier than the max, like Resource Binding which is limited to Tier 2 while GCN's do Tier 3)

    It's only mandatory for OEMs and they can put a switch for it in UEFI/BIOS if they want to.
    Also even if it was enabled and you couldn't disable it, at least Fedore Linux could still be installed as they use Microsoft to sign the kernel, thus secure boot allows it to be installed
     
  3. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I'm just hoping that the business model doesn't solely rely on advertizing for it's revenue.

    Forcing you to watch or read about something that you couldn't care less about.

    I'm a 100% sure Win 10 will be a big success for MS and we'll defiantly see Win 10 all over the place. Including phones/laptops/Tablets/desktops.

    Since they are saying it will be the last OS they make, meaning it will just evolve over time and be everywhere. A true All-in-one OS for the masses.
     
  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    One OS to rule them all.
     

  5. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    It should be a major win for the studios that they can use the DX12 API and be able to target 2010 hardware, rather than having to use both DX12 and DX11.

    And even if for example the GTX 480 will have to make do with low settings, the better CPU performance in DX12 could still mean a more stable framerate.

    I'd be very eager to see DX12 for for example Starcraft 2.
     
  6. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    SuSE Enterprise, OpenSuSE, RHEL and Fedora are compatible with SecureBoot. CentOS should be as well since it's based on RHEL. Debian LiveUSB will boot with SecureBoot enabled, but I have not tried to actually install it since it generates errors when booting.
     
  7. Deasnutz

    Deasnutz Member Guru

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    Here I am 35 years old, slowly losing my time for gaming, and now they finally start to truly make use of the fing thousands I've dropped on hardware in the last 15 years.

    Whhhhhyyyyyyyy!
     
  8. Mateja

    Mateja Member Guru

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    yeah. I don't think it's corporate greed so much as Microsoft understandably trying to get people to migrate away from what they have been warning us for years will be no longer supported OSes, to a new (free by the way--for china. but probably the rest of us too) OS with performance and security upgrades so they don't look like idiots when stuff goes horribly wrong on old, no longer supported OSes. I do wish that amd and NVidia would go back a few generations in their gpu support. my 3 core hp touchsmart tx2 1025-dx from 2008 is still running as good as ever and it would stand to benefit a lot if amd could write a driver for the HD3200. yeah I know it's old as hell and I should just trash it and buy a new one with this $3000 I don't have, just sayin. woulda been nice if this machine had the multicore support and my hardware could ever have functioned like it was meant to.
     
  9. Mateja

    Mateja Member Guru

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    exactly :\ wtf have my cores been doing all this time...
     
  10. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    I'm waiting to see what anti-trust moves Intel will make to keep their CPUs performing the best at high-end gaming.

    My OC'd $130 CPU under DX12 should perform almost as well as a Core i7 under dx11.
     

  11. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I doubt they would have to do anything as Intel's own hardware will also get performance increases.

    Saying that, most of the time there is no huge gaming advantage for Intel CPU's in DX11.
     
  12. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    now imagine what that intel cpu will do in dx12 :D

    If a AMD apu gets only 500k draw calls in dx11 and 2.5milion in dx12 then this intel i7 what over 10million?:nerd:
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  13. h4rm0ny

    h4rm0ny Master Guru

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    I'm seriously not seeing how this is "shameless corporate greed". Windows 7 isn't even sold by Microsoft anymore for domestic users, e.g. gamers. It is six years old and security and bug fixes are continued till 2020 but it's not even last year's product by this point - it's about to be two releases behind in a few months! So how is it "shameless greed" for MS not to start doing massive and expensive regression testing, let alone all the actual work in backporting the APIs into an OS that was never intended to have them and which isn't even their current product? Seriously - Entitlement Culture, much? Windows 7 still does everything it does when you bought it and has received countless updates and fixes since. Asking for core features of later products to be re-worked so that they can go into it all for free...?

    Also, speaking as an Office 365 subscriber, not sure what that last dig is supposed to be about, either.
     
  14. h4rm0ny

    h4rm0ny Master Guru

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    You may well have done. MS did sell versions of Windows with DVD support (Media Centre) out of the box and some OEMs added it themselves. But it was always a cost - the DVD codecs require a licence fee (and not to MS). So with Windows 8, Microsoft decided to separate it out clearly. Default Windows would not have it but you could buy a media version that did. And of course OEMs would sometimes add it. IIRC (which I may not), the licence fee for the codecs is somewhere around 70 cents. So given that many, many Windows installs had no need of the codecs, it really made a lot of sense to not make it a core part of Windows functionality - it just wastes too much money. Especially as half the people who want it will install their own version without a licence fee!
     
  15. h4rm0ny

    h4rm0ny Master Guru

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    Some clarification is necessary here. Windows 10 can work without Secure Boot enabled (though it's obviously more secure if it is). And OEMs can ship their systems with it possible to disable Secure Boot (and I would expect most to do so as it's a selling point). However, for Windows 10 certification, MS have specified that OEMs must ship the system with Secure Boot enabled.

    In practice this probably doesn't mean any change to business as usual - if you buy a Windows 8 / 8.1 machine today, it probably ships with Secure Boot enabled - and you can still turn it off. But MS are no longer forbidding OEMs from hard-setting it to on. If you buy your own motherboard, it's obviously not going to be hard-set to on. If you buy most PCs with Windows on, I expect to not be hard-set (which is a very well-educated guess). The cases where it might be hard set to "on" (so you can't disable it) are only likely, imo, to be large corporate sales where you would want to make sure a rogue employee didn't disable it on their machine or a server and infect your boot stack with something malicious, and IoT or embedded systems where you would never want to fiddle with the OS install or allow service people to do so (e.g. an ATM machine).

    I can't guarantee that, but it looks highly probable to me for many reasons.
     

  16. h4rm0ny

    h4rm0ny Master Guru

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    It will, but the gap between them and AMD will suddenly be lessened. My FX-8350 for example, is suddenly going to become a much better gaming chip.

    Well, for certain values of "suddenly", anyway. ;) We still have to wait for the games to actually use it, though that wont take long.

    Anyway, the point is Intel don't make their money by being any particular performance level in absolute terms, they make their money by being more powerful than their competitors in relative terms. People are going to buy chips regardless - the question is whose and at what price. ;)
     
  17. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    That' the thing. AMD has more cores. So I would assume the gap between an OC'd 8 core FX and a core i7 would be small even when performance is increased with dx12 on the intel CPU.

    From those slides, it also shows dx12 running on cores that the game doesn't. I think that's huge. Most console ports would use 6 cores for the game and dx12... then the other 2 (on AMD systems) would also be used by dx12 only.

    Can't wait for tests...
     
  18. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    In fact the gap in gaming amongst most CPUs will likely be much lower. I strongly believe that the difference between an i7 and an i3 will be minimal aswell. This is based on the presentations I've seen with ridiculously low CPU usage in games. If that's gonna be the case, a low-tier CPU will definitely be enough for gaming.

    In short, nobody's going to buy i5s and above for gaming anymore. IF and ONLY IF what AMD said during their presentations is true.
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Is there a gaming gap to narrow though ,are there many games that Intel have an advantage in?

    I'm sure people will need more than an i3 though, with games/engines built around consoles i don't see a dual core being enough, HT or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  20. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    Of course. Many games nowadays still prefer single-core performance.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-canyon-review-intel-core-i7-4790k-and-i5-4690k/5
    This is SLI performance, but the difference in some games is quite noticeable.

    And about the HT on an i3, believe it or not it makes quite a big difference in cpu-heavy games. I don't understand exactly why.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1uxhan/the_advantage_of_hyperthreading_in_games_with_a/
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015

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