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AMD: 7nm Navi and Epyc 2 launch in third quarter

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 1, 2019.

  1. DeskStar

    DeskStar Master Guru

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    I've said it with Vega......, but what's one more time....?!?

    Here's to hoping for great things from Navi...!!

    Something to especially stir up the disgusting pricing position the GPU market is currently facing.

    That is of course with no serious competition pricing can be whatever the manufacturer deems necessary.
     
  2. kings

    kings Active Member

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    I don’t know why some people keep dreaming on RTX 2080 performance, when AMD already said the Radeon VII will be the company’s high-end for the future ahead.

    Navi this year, with luck will probably target 2060/1080/Vega 64 performance, I don’t expect nothing more.
     
  3. AuerX

    AuerX Member

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    In October 2019 the RTX2070 has been out for a year.

    That means AMD will match "Old" tech with lower prices and in the eyes of most consumers is still just "catching up". If they match the 2070 at all.
    And will nVidia drop a 2070ti when/if that happens?

    Lot of speculations and questions indeed.
     
  4. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    2070 is an overpriced gpu then and today. You payed 550Eur to play ray traced Metro at 30fps/1080p, thats sad.

    People would consider it if card was half the price. Maybe Navi can pull that off.
     

  5. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I just searched 2070 Metro RTX benchmarks and I couldn't find a single review that was even close to 30fps/1080. The lowest I found was 45fps, Guru3d has it at 48, several ~50s, gnex has it at nearly 60fps average (42 @ 1%). And look I don't think 45 fps is good but it's 40% higher than 30fps - that's a pretty significant difference.

    Also looking at the performance per dollar charts (TPU) of 2070 at Vega 7's launch - it was better than quite a few cards overall. So yeah maybe the RTX features didn't pan out for performance but overall it wasn't terrible value.
     
  6. SirNoobster

    SirNoobster New Member

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    I consider Vega64 to be 2070 equivalent and Vega is here almost 2 years now.

    I still cant figure out who are they aiming at with Navi release. Is it simple replacement of current lineup with lower power? Will it push down prices of mainstream level?
     
  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I can't play fps games at 60fps. It is slideshow to me. Hell, it is not enough for isometric ARPG games.
    For fps games, I rather sacrifice details to get 90fps as minimum.

    And I can't wait for Navi as when playing game like Killing Floor 2 (with quite modified config for extra IQ), I am quite unhappy when fps goes to around 70~80.
    And I hope that Navi is at least 50% faster than My RX-580.
     
  8. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    RVII launch was terrible and you know that. Latest charts show its on pair with 2080(few days ago timmy joe benchmark shows VII won 7 of 11 games tested) while 2070 is like @SirNoobster said only fast as two year old Vega64.

    Im not bashing 2070, its a decent card but you cant deny that it does not worth the asking price.
     
  9. AuerX

    AuerX Member

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    As this is a Navi thread i won't compare the 2070 to the V64. Benchmarks are out there aplenty for people to reach their own conclusions.

    I won't talk about DLSS for the same reason.

    Navi pricing will be interesting.
    RVII was priced in line with it's competition.
     
  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Reason why you do not want to talk about DLSS is quite different. I did advocate it from start. I did advocate it after fist tech demos where it had mixed image quality results, but better fps.
    As it came to real games, I had to stop. Idea was good, but real world did sux badly. That kind of fps boost is not worth degradation to IQ.

    Maybe there will be better implementation of DLSS down the road, but till then...

    (Btw, nV still has variable shading rate and others. And those are still good on paper.)
     

  11. slicer

    slicer Active Member

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    Everybody here is saying that "wait till Nvidia releases their 7nm Turing parts"! :D
    What those people dont know is that 7nm fab is not yealding that good for huge chips. Why Turing is so much faster than Pascal was? Look at the size of that Turing chip! It is like x6 Jensen's bigger than Pascal was! :D
    [​IMG]

    In all seriousness. If You think that 12nm Turing parts are expensive... guess again when those bad yelds and big chip size are adding up when producing them at 7nm nvidia fab....
    So 7nm Navi chips are small, but they probably are gona be chiplets ("CF on a chip").
     
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  12. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    what a lot of people seem to be missing is that Navi has been designed for scalability and a mid-range price point.
    the scalability is what allowed them to take Sony and Microsoft dollars to make a kick-ass APU, then have a more powerful iteration as GPUs. indeed, as they work out the finer nuances of the "infinity fabric" interposer they can have a product that will hold up to anything on the market and hit spec by design - crucial for the AI and industrial market.


    you nailed it
     
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  13. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    To be fair Vega as matured a lot since it was released. Today the 56 is definitely performance wise a better card than the 1070. The 64 is very competitive with the 1080. The problem of the architecture today is efficiency and also price cause yeah in the gpu market AMD is not better than nVidia when it comes to price.
    So do you expect RX 580 performance? I don't see why it will require any luck for Navi to be as good as Vega 64 ...

    I don't expect RX 2080 either but i think expecting a slight upgrade over the 2070 (with hopefully a more realistic price) is not really being delusional. It's not like the 2070 is a great card it's actually quite an overpriced and average upgrade if you already own a 1070/1080/56/64. I think the reviews of the 2070 were actually quite ... let's just say friendly ... when you consider how small of an upgrade it is. At launch It was basically a 1080 for the same price as a 1080. Only thing you were getting is RTX which the card probably wont be powerful enough to exploit in the future.

    My main concern about Navi is not really performance but price. Vega was not cheap and the price of the Radeon VII is ridiculous. If AMD can bring us a 2070 TI level card for a more realistic launch price (600-650$ CAD) i'll buy it.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  14. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah that's fine - I'm the same way I like higher fps.. but if you polled all gamers the majority would say 60fps is fine. Regardless that's not the point.. if you're going to argue these things you need to be at least in the relative ballpark not 40% off.

    Vega 56 was 6% faster on release than the 1070 and now it's 4% faster (As of Vega 7nm review). It was always overall the faster card and it's still the faster card by roughly the same margin. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
     
  15. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    What I meant is that "60fps not being OK for me as I like 90fps+" is same as "average 45fps is not OK for average player who expects stable 60fps."
    Secondly, even average 50fps sux because there are likely dips to 40fps or lower. I would not even think about playing game like that.

    I do agree that 30fps statement is wrong. But still if RTX card can't do at least 50+ (no dips under 50fps), then such card is not really good investment/buy for playing games with enabled DX-R.
    = = = =
    I personally do not want AMD to market Navi as raytracing card unless it does play well in mainstream price range. If mainstream priced cards do poorly with DX-R, AMD should market Navi as: "And btw, now you can enable raytracing effects in DX-R enabled games." (As enabling feature does not equal enjoying.)
     
  17. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

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    just like the 2080 ti was "old" tech today because the titan v existed already,

    its a silly way to think of these things, any improvement in price/performance is progress imo, nothing fancy about making a bigger gpu, either company can do that, though it is costly.
     
  18. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I feel like you're not taking into considering what the size of turing would be on 7nm.

    I'm not saying it'd be a "small" chip, and i'm sure that Navi will be smaller, at least i'd hope it'd be smaller given the fact, again, it won't perform as good.

    Someone want to do the math and find out what Turing should be on 7nm? I'd bet less then pascal.

    I mean, we have just recently had discussions about Zen/Zen+ 12nm vs Zen 2 7nm sizes, and though we don't know (to my knowledge) of Zen2 has more transistors in it then Zen/Zen+, it appears to have been shrunk from 212.97 mm² to around 70-80mm². That's about 37% the size of Zen/Zen+, which actually lines up pretty well to TSMCs 34% i believe i recall them claiming of their 7nm from 16nm (aka 12nm)

    Do that same math with turing (yes i know that's not exactly how it works, but unless someone else wants to do the math, what else do we have to work with?) and turing becomes a 282.75 mm² process, not a whole lot bigger then Zen/Zen+ dies.

    Again, if someone wants to correct this information, please do so, i am interested in to see what information we actually have.
     
  19. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    I see some mentioning about how Navi was supposed to be a huge jump in performance. The reason that was expected is because of a new architecture that was not GCN based. Unfortunately Navi is going to be a tweaked GCN architecture, not the new architecture, so we should only expect modest performance increases.
     
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  20. AuerX

    AuerX Member

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    Everyone is different.

    I far prefer 4k + freesync/gsync.

    I don't miss over 60 fps one bit.

    Conan Exiles, No Man's Sky, Anthem, D3, Mechanicus, Inquisitor-Martyr etc...
     

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