AMD’s Lisa Su Hints that high-end 7nm NAVI GPUs are on the way

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    Can't hate ray tracing when is non existent... there are 2 games using it and not even fully.

    So my guess is...you are feeling pretty lonely on that next-gen of yours and you need to do some weird flexing with that 2080Ti of yours. Stay strong, in 2-3 years, we will be there with you with plenty of games and 400€/$ gpus.
     
  2. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    States non existent, then immediate states 2 games exist. Hmm....

    1+1=2 right? and 0 is non-existent right? 2=0?
    1. Battlefield V
    2. Metro Exodus
    3. Shadow of the Tomb Raider
    4. Quake II RTX (Yes, i will add this, it's an old game, who cares, it has ray tracing, and is a game)
    5. Stay in the Light (This game requires ray-tracing)
    6. Assetto Corsa Competizione (I won't count this one as i personally can't find much information about ray tracing, it says it uses RT cores, but who knows)
    So 5=2=0? Hm....

    Not to mention the games confirmed coming out
     
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  3. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    You should not read everything literaly, under 1% (yeah... its made up again :D, hope you get the idea behind it ) of the games launched since RTX cards came out make use of RTX, for me is enough to say is non existant and im not going to say that all those games were patched after release because of RTX.(Ooops i guess i said it after all)

    BF V, Metro, STR... not fully traced. Quake II is a tec demo, but we can give it a point if you wish to. Stay in the light (?) dont know the game. Assetto Corsa (shrug).

    So yeah... you had a hard time to list 6 games, and all of them are "meh" RTX.

    They are games coming, ofc, the more the merier. But atm, sadly, its just not worth the trouble (and by trouble i mean $$$$)
     
  4. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    ACC is not ray traced at all as far as I know.
    More likely RT was dropped.
     

  5. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Everything should be read literally, specifically when you're making a point, and providing numbers.

    That being said, i don't disagree, right now ray tracing isn't widely adopted, but for a technology as large as it is, it's really not that surprising.

    Personally given the price points there's no reason for me to be interested in an RX 5000 series GPU as it doesn't have ray tracing and i don't have any interest in spending money on something that won't support current and future technologies. Many will say "but current RTX cards don't do ray tracing with decent performance", but again that's your/their opinion it does not speak for all. I don't care if i have to lower some settings to make ray tracing playable. But again that's me personally, anyone should buy anything they want based off their own opinions and wants. Your original reply though was attacking someone for wanting ray tracing or bust, which makes no sense. Buy what you want and let the other guy buy what they want.


    Not really, easily googleable, as well as the other 11 or so games that are coming out. As to the "meh" statement, your personal opinion, which you're allowed to have, doesn't mean someone else isn't allowed to only want ray tracing, and are happy when a developer implements any amount of it.
     
  6. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    I did not say what someone must or must not buy, thats for you to decide.

    I "attacked" the idea of making a product worthless just because the ray tracing support is non existant, its a bold statement and based on self perspective, same thing you are against in your post if im not mistaken.

    Again, you are defending a 1 year old tech with future promises, that is the point where we are atm with ray tracing. After 1 year we have 2.5 games using it and not even fully, by the time we can have our hands full of ray traced games those who bought a 1300€ gpu (thinking only on ray tracing performance and not raw performance) will have to buy a new one, unless there are happy playing at 1080 with lowered settings, and if you buy a 1300€ gpu i doubt you have a 1080 60hz monitor.
     
  7. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    Add to this list:
    Control
    New Woflenestein
     
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  8. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    Irreverent if its full RTX or not, Ray Traced global illumination is in its own league, RTX Shadows look realistic and amazing, no one said that a game must utilize all ray tracing technologies, if it can do something that no otehr graphics card can its already wining.
    "by the time we can have our hands full of ray traced games" ill be having a GPU made in that year, most people that buy high-end card upgrade their GPUs every generation [I do: 2080Ti<1080Ti<1080<980Ti<970SLI<780Ti], its MUCH cheaper this way because your old card holds value.
    Lets not forget the amazing ReShade that can add RTX to almost any game, its a huge bonus and plus to RTX owners

    • Battlefield V – Ray traced reflections
    • Metro Exodus – Ray traced global illumination
    • Shadow of the Tomb Raider – Ray traced shadows
    • Stay in the Light – Ray traced global illumination and reflections
    • Quake II RTX – Ray traced global illumination
    Announced RTX games:
    P.S. Sour people like you that criticize expensive new technologies like ray tracing are just Jealous.
     
  9. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    That's also an opinion to say they are. It's more than likely imo that any non 2080Ti RTX cards wont be powerful enough to do proper ray tracing 2-3 years from now if games start to use the tech to its "full" potential. If games don't start to use the tech to its "full" potential then the benefits are questionable. I've seen BF and SOTR in real on a 2070 and i can't say i've been impressed much. I would certainly not trade a significant chunk of my fps or resolution for this level of improvement.

    It's strange but i think it's the other way around. Given the price point of the 5700 i don't see the point of RTX. I see the point of RTX once you start spending 2080Ti kind of money. At the price point of the 5700 i'll be more than very very surprised if you'll still be able to enable RTX down the road without making big concession to gfx quality. I'll be shocked in fact unless the tech simply stagnate and keep being utilize to less than half of its potential. And at this point you have to wonder if it makes sense to greatly reduce image quality to .... improve image quality with RTX. It feels like counter productive to me.

    BTW the original post he replied to was also kind of indirectly attacking people thinking RTX is not valuable enough to justify the premium by saying a card without RTX is not needed. That's his opinion and that's a very bold one to be honest. There's a 100$ price difference between the 5700XT and 2070 Super and outside of RTX they roughly perform the same. If you consider that RTX is worth 100$ that's fine but it doesn't make the other products not needed. I think 5700 and 5700XT were both very much needed and i think the the market is in dire need of a 5800 and 5800XT.

    Come on. We can discuss "RTX or not" like adults. Attacking other people is not the way to go. I'm not willing to pay an extra 50-100$ for RTX. Not because i'm jealous or sour but because i just don't want to spend that extra money for a card i'll keep two years considering the level of support ray tracing has been getting so far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  10. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    That people is under 1%, so people that buy every year the top-end gpu is irrelevant to the market and brands, they just milk that people every year.

    You post the same game list posted 3 times now, to say nothing new about what we know or what we expect of ray tracing.

    I dont critize new technology (new tech is always expensive), i just find RTX 99% marketing. Like i said before, after 1 year we got "meh" ray tracing, as your stated in the game list, no game is using fully the techonology. We will see what coming titles bring to the table, ill happily buy a new gpu with ray tracing capabilites if games with it are worth it.

    In 2019, saying "no rtx, no need" is hard fanboyism, 99% of the games are NOT ray traced. So there is still need and market for non ray tracing cards. I would have bought that statement if you would have posted "Im not interested in a non ray traced gpu".
     

  11. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Again that's your opinion and is not fact. I would gladly buy an AMD GPU if the price was right and if they had ray tracing capabilities. But because they don't, i won't buy one, currently. By your definition, since i won't buy a GPU without ray tracing, i'm apparently a fanboy, even though i would gladly buy an AMD GPU if it had it. How does that work?

    This contradicts your statement i quoted above, unless you're hounding him on the fact he called it RTX rather then ray tracing. I can't speak for @MegaFalloutFan but i would assume by RTX he meant ray tracing as no sane person would expect that AMD would have RTX in their GPU since that's nvidias branding.
     
  12. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    So now you are not reading text literally? Hard to follow you man... :p And yep... i have seen TONS of not sane people in the tech world and gpu/cpu wars.

    You can live in 2019 without ray tracing? (yes you can) Then the statement "no rtx, no need" is nonsense, unless as i said before you make it clear that you are talking about yourself... if you enter an AMD topic, to post that as an universal truth and then leave... well, fanboyism is the only reason i can think of.
     
  13. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    To be fair, reading text that has numbers in it literally and reading text as to what they are trying to say are two different things.

    It's easy to let someone go by calling something by its proprietary name. Look at band-aid. If someone asks you for a band-aid, do you tell them you don't have any because you don't have any band-aid branded bandages? No. This doesn't apply to numbers, which are exact. If you ask for 10 of something at a store, and only get 9 because the store felt that's what you really wanted, you'd be upset. Hence your non-existent and 2 being completely made up numbers yet they are intended to be read as exacts. "near-non-existent" and "Very little" appears to be what you meant, yet you stated non-existent and 2.
     
  14. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    Now you are just bored LOL

    Have a good night :D
     
  15. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I'm speaking factually so i'm not sure what you mean by that but sure.
     

  16. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Let's stop. Ezpz.
     
  17. mikeysg

    mikeysg Ancient Guru

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    I'm waiting anxiously for word on the 5800XT, if it performs to me level of expectation, I'd jump on it without a moment's hesitation.....my 2x VEGA64 will have to do for now.
     
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  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    "And from 780Ti to 980Ti was around 40%~45%." ??? More like 30% and it had 13% higher transistor count and 16% higher clock.

    "They did it from 980Ti to 1080Ti, 50%~70%" This jump in performance is real, but due to same mechanics as above: 47.5% more transistors and 47% higher clock.

    Since then nVidia added into Turing all that compute resulting in some 30% higher performance for 2080Ti over 1080Ti.
    And that's with 58% more transistors and practically same boost clock.
    - - - -
    So, your starting point is Turing. An GPU for 18.6B transistors and 1.6GHz. Do you expect 50% performance come from 26B transistor GPU and minor clock increase to stay within 250W TDP? Or will it be 24B transistor GPU with 300W TDP? I think nVidia likes to keep that "better TDP/power efficiency" card playing.
    Except nVidia will want to boost RT performance by at least 2 fold. So I would expect that they'll sacrifice part of usual performance uplift again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  19. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    Its acceptable to release mid-low card without RTX [when i say RTX i mean ray tracing, any ray tracing just short to write RTX]
    BUT when high end card comes out, well it must have RTX, there is no point buying expensive high end card without such breakthrough feature, the amount of games is irrelevant, its an issue of horse and carriage, you need people with horses first to get carriages, you dont make carriage in horseless world.
    Basically, the more people with RTX the more games there will be, its like HMD and VR games, no one going to make games when 10 people own HMDs, the more people own HMD the more and better games there will be.

    Im sure everyone agrees that a high end card wont be cheap, so whats the point in buying something if another brand has the same performance for same price [or just 50$/100$ more] but with ray tracing?
    When you buy 300$ card and thats your limit, then 400$ card is kinda expensive but when you buy 500-600$, paying 50$-100$ more is nothing serious, the more expensive a product then the difference of extra 50/100 is less "feelable"
     
  20. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    Even if it performs like 2080 Super for same price? but lacking ray tracing?
     

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