AMD’s Lisa Su Hints that high-end 7nm NAVI GPUs are on the way

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    While you are right 99%, if AMD never tackle the top end, the top end will never get cheaper. Opposite to that, look at 1080TI vs 2080TI and it's pricing, since AMD didn't compete "up there" in a long time.
    But that's just for people who want the best of the best at a cost that scales beyond "mid range" cards, in general they'd just need to tackle anything to the xx70 models and Nvidia would have trouble selling their cards. Especially since features like Freesync or AMD sharpening or stuff like that, have caught up to what advantage Nvidia had in the "ecosystem" field.
    If AMD ever gets a grip on OEM manufacturers, that's their breaking point to leadership anyway.
     
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  2. Silva

    Silva Master Guru

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    FML!
    (To clarify, what I need is a smaller Navi)
     
  3. RavenMaster

    RavenMaster Maha Guru

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    I wonder if they will have HDMI 2.1 sockets on them? Or even Displayport 2.0
     
  4. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    The heat issue with Navi is not to do with using too much power.

    The stock cooler uses a graphite thermal pad on the die instead of paste.

    Steve and GN just replaced it with paste and added some more tension and the temps dropped significantly and the GPU stopped throttling.

    Another YouTuber slapped a VIsiontech cheap two fan cooler on one and the temps dropped real low and that was a cheap cooler.

    I think Big Navi will get a better cooler solution than 5700/xt and will be fine but I really hope AIB's will have cards ready at launch this time.
     
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  5. jaggerwild

    jaggerwild Master Guru

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    AMD=to little to late.
     
  6. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Your comments are always such a great read.
     
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  7. Mpampis

    Mpampis Active Member

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    Since I'm gaming on a 2560x1080 monitor, what I really want is a Navi refresh (RX 6700 XT?) on the same price, or a significant price drop on the RX 5700 XT.
    Going for a faster, more expensive card would be an overkill. I'd be glad to see AMD competing on the high end GPU segment though.
     
  8. screwtech02

    screwtech02 Member Guru

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    Appears to be alot of NVIDIA fanbois in this thread.... Competition is a good thing, be glad to see AMD moving up again. NVIDIA been fleecing the populace for too long....
     
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  9. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    They don´t need to match the 2080Ti, they just need to come close enough with a much better price. If they can manage 90% of the 2080Ti performance at around 800€ then they will have a winner on their hands! Despite the fact that 800€ is still an obscene amount of money for a GPU...
     
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  10. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I'm still surprised AMD hasn't done the chiplet design with Navi. Seems like if they really wanted to undercut Nvidia's pricing while having decent (but not necessarily better) overall performance, the chiplet design would've been a very easy way to do that.

    Right now, the 5700XT is roughly equal to the 2070 Super. I'm sure some AIB pre-OC'd models with more effective cooling will be comparable to the 2080 (since the 2070S and 2080 are already very close in performance). So, I think that suggests the 5800 will compete with the 2080 Super. AMD has traditionally always had a #900 series. If they release a 5900, that will likely compete with the 2080Ti, at least in performance (not so sure about wattage).
    All that being said, Nvidia hasn't been making giant leaps in performance lately. I'm sure the 3070 will have performance roughly equal to the 2080 (non-Super), so, I'm sure the 5800 will still be distinctly faster.
     

  11. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    NO RTX, No Need.
     
  12. Duke Nil

    Duke Nil Maha Guru

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    It blows my mind that AMD still launches their cards with such crappy cooling solutions, wouldn't they rather just have positive launch reviews?

    Like you said even a cheap 2 fan cooler with a few cents worth of thermal paste instantly makes it a much better card. What's the tradeoff they see that's worth reviews complaining about thermals, throttling and power efficiency?
     
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  13. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    This kind of comments puzzle me. What AMD actually has to do? Deliver 30% more performance than nVidia at a lower price point? This is not Polaris all over again. The 5700 and 5700XT are very nice cards and the performance is very competitive at their price point. We all know 5800 and 5800XT are coming and there's no reason to believe they wont compete with 2080 and 2080 Super. Now AMD got to secure oem manufacturers support because those blower cards ain't pretty.
     
  14. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    What makes you think the 3070 will be better than the 2080Ti? The 2070 was actually worse than a 1080Ti. Unless nVidia drops RTX or accept to cut their profit margin because of RTX a 3070 beating a 2080Ti is more than likely not happening.

    If the 5800XT is not too far from the 2080Ti is will be a competitive card for pretty much the whole 2020 year unless of course nVidia decides to cut their profit margin.
     
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  15. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    okaaaayyy

    The only reason why Polaris was not good is because AMD did not make it better. That's basically your argument which is very close to be you know what. For the record the last AMD card i owned was a 5870 or 5850 can't really remember which one it was.

    I think you should take the time to re-read reviews. The 5700XT is not very far from a 2070 Super and is sold for 100$ less. As long as the oem non blowers cards are not sold 100$ more than the blower models it's a competitive card.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019

  16. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    Good to see you get out of the cave, now you can go back in.
     
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  17. kings

    kings Member Guru

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    Time to market is key.

    This cards are needed now, not when Nvidia are already moving on!

    If AMD´s "just around the corner" is +6 months (like we saw with Vega), "upcoming quarters" probably is close to one year?
     
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  18. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    The 5700 is roughly equal to the 2070. The XT is roughly as fast as the 2070S.
    I never said anything about the 5900 being Navi based or higher than 300W. It's very likely that the 5800+ models will have more transistors but operate at lower clocks, to remain under 300W.
    Yeah... that's not going to happen. Nvidia wants RTX to be a thing, and that's only going to happen if they force it on high-end models. The only reason they made models like the 1660 was to appease mainstream gamers who distinctly don't care about RTX and don't have the specs for it anyway.
    You're insane if you think nothing more than a die shrink is going to magically make everything as fast as you think it will. As you yourself said, they got substantial performance increases on the same node. The architecture matters far more than transistor size; this is why Nvidia is still holding their ground despite being on a larger node.
    You are WAY too optimistic of Nvidia's progress if you seriously think the 3000 series is going to get a 50% increase over the 2080 Ti. Nvidia is already pissing people off (including their own fanbase) with their price point. To triple up TU116 and shrink the die it would make it obscenely expensive, and even on 7nm, doing that would make the die huge. Unless someone can prove otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, transistors are measured in total area. Going to 7nm does not save them 42% in width and 42% in length (when compared to their current 12nm node), so, how exactly do you imagine they're going to fit that many more transistors?
     
  19. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    To be fair ACE combat 7 completely invalidates that chart. You take that one result out and the performance evens out.
     
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  20. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    As Loophole35 said, one game throws off the balance.
    Uh... I never said the 5800 was going to be competitive with the 2080Ti. In fact, I said it was more likely to compete with the 2080S...
    Then why'd you bring that up? Seems like a distraction from the discussion otherwise.
    Because a die 42% die shrink is not going to yield a 42% increase in performance, efficiency, or a ratio of the two. I seriously don't understand where you think they're going to pull a 50% improvement over the 2080Ti from just 1 generational change going to 7nm. That's absurdly optimistic.
    My bad - I was mixing up the dies. Though to be fair, I'm not really sure why you brought up the TU116 in the first place.
    I didn't say it needed to be, but you're the one making bold claims as to how much performance they can add from a die shrink.
     

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