About Nvidia, game optimizations for their cards, and the PC gaming monopoly

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by games2007, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    actually, i think ive read the article youre quoting.

    the reason why batman ended up being an nvidia based game was because nvidia freely supplied hardware for the game to be tested on, but ati failed to supply any hardware at all, hence they could not test how well the game would run on an ati card, hence could not optimise its performance efficiently.

    ati currently has a way for you to manually set crossfire profiles, but aside from that, nothing else really.
     
  2. Exodite

    Exodite Ancient Guru

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    Interestingly enough it seems Batman: AA still runs on par, or even better, on AMD hardware than nVidia. Bar the usage of in-game AA and PhysX, obviously.

    At least from the reviews I've seen.
     
  3. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    The sdk eula doesn't tell you anything. The pre-built binary is free to use, the source code costs $50000 US to license and is required if the developer wants to do anything interesting with physx.
     
  4. Squall Leonhart

    Squall Leonhart Banned

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    the SDK is used to create PhysX effects, and source code on compatible / licensed platforms.

    just like the DX and OpenAL SDK's are used to create Dx and OpenAL source code.

    the game developers i am in contact with that have used physx or havok, have no idea what you are talking about.


    Edit.
    The source code is only required for using physx on unsupported platforms, and does indeed cost 50K, however most dev studios will only require the SDK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009

  5. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    No license = no support from nvidia (which is what we're talking about here). Aside from that you have limited debug capability with just the sdk and can't use physx for anything outside the limitations of the sdk.
     
  6. Squall Leonhart

    Squall Leonhart Banned

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    .....and the SDK is considered licensed if you follow the submission requirements.....

    I don't think you have any idea about the SDK, nor about the DEBUG capabilities. you don't need source in order to debug, an SDK contains the symbols, libs and headers required for creating GPU and CPU physx accelerated apps.
     
  7. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    well tbqfh I don't really give a crap what you think, iirc you were banned before for being pedantic and you're lucky to even still be registered here. You seem to be ignoring what this thread is about just for the sake of argument.
     
  8. kitch9

    kitch9 Ancient Guru

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    Do you also believe in santa claus?
     
  9. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    Does UE3 have built in AA? no.
    Does nvidia pay devs to use physx? no.
    Do devs have to pay for official on site physx support? yes.
    Did ATI give CM $ 1m to put dx11 in dirt 2? yes.

    Not sure what's so unbelievable about that
     
  10. CocainHore

    CocainHore Master Guru

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    for the op - what your saying is false big time.

    actually the other way around, the game developers makes the game optimized for nvidia technology, this is absolutely nonsense :) no offense but you should read reliable sources before you post it.

    and in general i can add that after years of using a geforce, i moved to ATI cards last year i had a 4850 before my 5850 and i see no reason of going back to nvidia since ATI are cheaper \ the card is working great and cool, great power consumption and the list goes on.
     

  11. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    I think it might be due to the fact the Nvidia spend a hell of alot of money on promotion of the Nvidia brand. How many games do you see with the Nvidia logo when booting up a game? A hell of alot.

    ATI does things very differently. They quietly plug away and bring out cards that are real value for money.
     
  12. lambchop

    lambchop Member Guru

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    I agree it is not very good, but they are a business and want peoples money. Optimizing a game whether performance or extra options ensures they just nudge ahead of ATI...atleast until new/better ati drivers or hacks are available. Physx i really don't care for, so nvidia can have that all they want. ATI could quite easily pour more money than nvidia into luring developers...but they don't for the most part. As long as they keep releasing great cards at great prices which increase competition im not bothered.
     
  13. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    Not to get in to trouble here but... Nvidia is the prime example of a typical American high flying Business. What i mean is, they are a powerhouse in what they do. They know they have what people want, but do not spend money in areas they should do.

    Very power hungry graphics cards that cost alot. But excel in what they achieve to do. :)
     
  14. Squall Leonhart

    Squall Leonhart Banned

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    Actually, for your information, my banning was because of a fallout between myself and Hilbert.

    Secondly. You should give a crap.
    Being staff here on guru3d you should atleast be willing to recognise when you are wrong, for the sake of the readers who should be always given the best information available.

    And you know me enough to know that i won't let staff spread misinformation just because they are staff.

    You are correct about the onsite support, as this is one of the benefits of the nvidia developer network. Though you are paying for alot more then just physx support.

    You are just wrong about the requirements of the main source for debugging and the cost for licensing on supported platforms. I've contacted several developers i know of that have used the SDK at one point (Eran/Reg at ngohq being one of them) and the Licensing terms are as they are written. Free to use to create commercial apps and games as long as you follow the instructions in the SDK ToA pdf.

    Sheesh, your acting as if i was personally out to make you look bad, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

    Anyhow, since the topic of PhysX costs came up, they are to be addressed for the benefit of the user who raised that topic, No where am i ignoring anything.

    Now,... i had an interesting suggestion from a developer i know the other day in regards to the Batman, vs ATI no aa issue, and his suggestions would imply that forcing AA on this game, is actually degrading image quality because of a lack of Gamma corrected Anti Aliasing.

    Could anyone with this game force AA on and put up some screenshots?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  15. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    Ati = Cheaper cards in performance/quality but newer games may hay performance problems bcoz of optimization


    Nvidia = more expensive cards in performance/quality but newer games are almost guarenteeded optimized of nvidia bcs they pay or work or whatever with game developers.

    My POV, of course there are exceptions :p.
     

  16. rflair

    rflair Don Coleus Staff Member

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    Squall you come off as nothing but arrogant. You know your stuff but you spew it with great bias.

    Still I like hearing what you have to say.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  17. Norvekh

    Norvekh Ancient Guru

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    TWIMTBP is, in most situations, simply another annoying video which plays prior to games loading. What must be mentioned however is the massive size difference between Nvidia and ATI when it comes to staff, resources, and available cash. AMD is still paying off debts and can afford some promotions but they really must hold back for the most part until they are back in the black. And, as such, AMD holds the purse strings of their graphics division which is but one portion of what makes up AMD. Nvidia on the other hand is in the black, is a single-purpose company, and has far more available resources and cash to spend towards promotion.

    I frankly find it remarkable where ATI is right now given all of that. It would be far easier on AMD to go to a more single-purposed company like Nvidia like they were prior to many of their aquisitions over the past decade. But, they realize having their own in-house graphics division has great potential in the long run.

    In the end you are comparing a company which, while smaller, is solvent to a company which has been in the red for a few years now. Until that status changes I wouldn't expect to see AMD do massive promotions a la Nvidia style. Same goes for graphics division sizes as well as until AMD has more people working in their graphics division I wouldn't expect them to send out too many people to do promotions and such.
     
  18. BlueDragon

    BlueDragon Member Guru

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    I agree I mean what I love about nvidia when I had SLI if a game did not scale or work right evga would have a profile on there site that mostly would make it work and latter nvidia started to do the updated profiles.

    Now if ATI could just add profiles to the driver and companies like sapphire could just make a profile update the driver and make it work in crossfire that would be great with out waiting for a driver update I heard some where that ATI said its on there to do list.
     
  19. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    squall leonhart, if you'd read my post properly to begin with you'd see that I never said you need the source for debug, so no, I'm not wrong. Maybe you should focus more on what's being said than trying to prove you have a bigger dick than everyone else.

    And FYI people are only banned for spamming, piracy, or being an asshat, something to consider.
     
  20. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    yup i like a pompose f'in know it all sometimes :nerd:
     

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