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A Way to Fix RGB Output in NVCP (HDMI)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Mda400, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    EDIT: Use the SetHDMIFullRGByDefault (or whatever the exact string name is) registry trick instead of my old method. That one works just as good and you get to keep a flat 60/120hz so games or videos won't stutter due to uneven refresh rates.

    Still, do NOT use the EDID override trick if you want audio with your HDMI connection (which should be mostly everyone. otherwise why would you be using it over DVI?)
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  2. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    I resolved it using this trick:

    taked from: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=216099
     
  3. mkh

    mkh Member Guru

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    so this is why when using hdmi connection instead of dvi result greyish tone to everything? Dvi has clearer colors/whites and deeper blacks on my asus ve278q panel.
     
  4. lowenz

    lowenz Master Guru

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    I use RGB/YCBCR switch and *cycling* more times it works.

    But there's a major problem: with YCBCR there's no signal to monitor @POST.
    The signal returns when Windows loads the ForceWare.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012

  5. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    Does this make the driver automatically switch between 0-255 and 16-235 depending on content type? because that also did not work until i used the trick i did in my first post.

    And unless you clean install, the custom resolutions stay when you update your driver, unlike me having to go and place 1's by 20-some lines and save the file to be placed in each driver i use.

    But nice find. i may try it on my next driver install.

    Also, RGB is 4:4:4 (The whites and black stand out around the NVCP window) in the NVCP even though it doesnt say it and YCbCr is 4:2:2 (deep blacks need a lower brightness level and the whites blend in with the NVCP window) even though it doesnt say that either. Its a shame they don't offer YCbCr 4:4:4 as well (but AMD does :nerd:) as i would test to see the difference, but YCbCr no matter what format, is compressed. Its preferred to use RGB since Windows reports natively in RGB.

    (On my Xbox 360, RGB looks better than YCbCr 709/601 for the same reason)

    When i choose YCbCr, it looks just as if i didn't do the trick i do with the refresh rate. so YCbCr may be good for movies and video, but its compressed and doesn't look as good as uncompressed RGB. all you need to do is raise the brightness to a balanced level for both 0-255 and 16-235 content when using RGB.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  6. lowenz

    lowenz Master Guru

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    Yeah, YCbCr looks terrible with some color gradients.
     
  7. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    From what i've read on teh interwebs, YCbCr was put in place so HD content for cable tv or satellite wouldn't require so much bandwidth as its already a lot with 720p and 5.1 Dolby Digital going over your set-top box. RGB and 1080p over your set-top box (at least in North America) is the next frontier in HD TV content.

    So in summary, YCbCr has just moved along with all imaging devices as an alternative to save bandwidth over connections that couldn't handle it (the ol' composite cable). I know someone will refute me on this reason, but that's why you see the options for it on today's consoles and set-top boxes.

    Now that DVI, HDMI, and Displayport are becoming the standard for HD connections (i know component cables are still a major HD connection, but its analog and needs extra processing to convert from Digital to Analog, unlike DVI, HDMI, and Displayport which are native Digital Connections), RGB and 1080p+ resolutions are possible for TV content. On the PC side, it was always compatible as VGA is like a component cable but for a PC. Its analog, but provides enough bandwidth over composite for HD content.
     
  8. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    I use to do that too, but since i bought an HDMI receiver, it wouldn't *cycle* fast enough to trick both my TV and Receiver. So i used this more sustainable trick instead.

    YCbCr is not the native colorspace to Windows. RGB is, so keep it on RGB unless you see a better contrast with YCbCr than RGB. Again, RGB is uncompressed so always shoot for RGB (or XVycc or Deep Color, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  9. lowenz

    lowenz Master Guru

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    Same conclusion for me after many experiments :D

    But why there's no signal @POST? Really strange thing.
     
  10. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    Not really sure what I'm reading here but is this a way to play games in limited RGB? On my AMD cards I can select limited RGB which works very well in my Sony tele but with Nvidia cards I'm limited to full RGB (which causes black crush) or ycbcr444 which looks a bit rubbish.
     

  11. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Seems like it, with this trick I can get RGB to look far better than it does by default (AKA terrible black saturation and colors). So this is rather helpful. Although it's SO HARD to get the control panel to goddamn switch the color mode properly.


    Actually this doesn't work at all...
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  12. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    "Another way is to start driver install and then quit out before it does anything"

    I've never tried modifying drivers before so pardon me being a bit thick here but I couldn't quit out after the driver began installing. Can I just extract the files from the installer using something like 7zip and modify them before starting the install?

    edit

    Okay so yeah what you do is just unpack the driver and make the changes then obviously save the changes. That way you don't have to keep doing this if you're like me and often changing cards in and out.

    What this does is solve the ridiculous Nvidia problem of full-range RGB over HDMI but doesn't solve the black crush problem with RGB if using a television that doesn't support full RGB. Honestly it boggles the mind that these problems persist with Nvidia drivers. No such problems with AMD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  13. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    No, this is the way to play games in Full 4:4:4 RGB. games should always be 4:4:4 RGB to look the best, but without this trick (and some others on the internet) Nvidia users aren't able to get Full RGB working.

    If blacks are crushing on Full RGB, then your TV does not properly support Full RGB or your brightness needs tuning (All HDMI-compliant TV's are SUPPOSE to support full RGB though since it can be used with a PC). Gamma settings will also effect your black level if your TV has such a setting.

    On AMD's Vision Control Center, your fine as you can already choose between 4 different color formats: RGB Studio (4:2:2) RGB Full (4:4:4) YCbCr Studio (4:2:2) and YCbCr Full (4:4:4).

    Windows is native RGB so you want to go for the RGB format preferrably because its an uncompressed format unlike YCbCr which is mostly used for Television Broadcasting to save bandwidth.

    if your watching a video, choose Studio, if your playing a game, choose Full (and raise the brightness maybe?)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  14. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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  15. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    How come it doesnt work even though you said its better than leaving it by default?

    And if by color you mean RGB or YCbCr, you only have two options (RGB444 or YCbCr444). If you mean bits of color (like 16 bit or 32 bit) then that's another story.
     

  16. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    That's for Ghosting which can sometimes go hand in hand with Color Bleeding.

    All this trick does is overrides the refresh rate color format that Nvidia thinks is the best for the current displayed content. It makes your blacks blacker-than-black (deep) and your whites bright and contrasted without having to adjust your brightness. It's the "proper" way to achieve your TV's advertised Dynamic Contrast rating (for example, mine is supposedly 50,000:1).

    Ghosting is rare on today's modern LCD's unless you have a cheap TV (Insignia, Dynex, etc.) that doesn't have a good internal scaler.
     
  17. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    My receiver sometimes does not show the post screen and the windows boot screen if i turn the receiver on in the middle of the the POST.

    It relates to how fast the HDMI device "handshakes" with your GPU to allow it to show an image (a function of HDCP).

    It only Handshakes at the beginning of the POST and doesn't check again until Windows boots up to the login screen. So unless you have a receiver, all you can do (if it really bothers you) is get an external HDMI switcher that is faster at Handshaking than your display (which is costly and i wouldn't buy one just for your case) or just remember what keys you need to press to get into the BIOs/UEFI or safe mode if you cant see the POST.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  18. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Because I thought that it actually changed to RGB when it was still on YCbCr444. When I finally was able to switch it over it looked like crap as usual.
     
  19. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    "Useless post"
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  20. Supertribble

    Supertribble Master Guru

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    My tele doesn't support full RGB and this is clear when setting the Xbox and PS3 to limited RGB as that looks much better with no black crush. At the moment I'm having to use ycbcr444 as Nvidia in their infinite wisdom don't offer limited RGB for desktop programs, only video. In fact on the PC monitors I own there is even a problem with RGB over HDMI which of course is what this thread is about. I just cannot comprehend why these problems still persist with Nvidia drivers. I'm actually selling my 580 and getting a 7970.

    :cussing:
     

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