A question for a fellas with AMD b350 socket

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by x58haze, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. x58haze

    x58haze Master Guru

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    Do you guys have installed the drivers of the DMA? <-- Direct Memory Access Controller?
    I'm trying to understand if I'm the unlucky guy ever on my mobo Asrock B350 because it seems that my motherboard supports DMA but the drivers are not being installed

    Looks, in order to check if have DMA drivers installed, just press Windows+r type: devmgmt.msc (Device manager) in view, select: Devices by Connection, then go to PCI express rot complex -> Pci Standar Isa Bridge> and right click Direct Acces Memory Controller <-- see if drivers are installed, im just curious.


    Also check if you guy have generic drivers for the: Standart Host Cpu, Mine are pci (generic one)


    I already tried to download the manufacturer drivers, unpack in a folder, point to the DMA and select the have disk option and put the path of the drivers folder extracted, not luck, tried already setup no luck, tried AMD Drivers no luck ,even from guru3d. no luck.

    So was wondering why is this happening, i need to make this DMA driver work, in order to bypass this issue of the USB+sata+realtek integrated audio sharing resources with my GPU! This suckssss

    you guys can check the topic i created direct in AMD
    https://community.amd.com/message/2938378


    Thanks in advance:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Ripcord

    Ripcord Active Member

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    Hi just checked mine, do you have a driver installed under the drivers tab? it may just be the info message that is incorrect
     
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  3. x58haze

    x58haze Master Guru

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    Thanks Ripcord for checking,
    Welp according to a friend of mine we did many test also checking the Hardware id for most of it, and yup , is not installed. cause if it was installed, the DMA will bypass this situation of the sata+realtek integrated sharing resources, if you checked the AMD thread i created, you can see there the MSINFo32 how badly is sharing with the gpu.


    So you dont have this situation right, if you go to hardware resources in msinfo32 +IRQ and you drop to the bottom your gpu is not sharing like mine, right?

    I'm curious if your DMA works or appeared as (driver installed) also what motherboard are you running? and what Windows Version? thanks.
     
  4. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Dl free version of Driver Easy.
    Download and manually install those drivers.
    I hope it will solve your problem.
     
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  5. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Try this, its actually a really good program. Could help solve your issues.

    PM me if you like as I have a few Driver Easy keys that I am sure still have some activation's left if you want to try them, that way you can just let Driver Easy install everything for you.
     
  6. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Right I just doubled checked mine and no, I too don't have any drivers installed for the DMA in device manager but under the Drivers tab there is the default Microsoft driver which it seems to be using.

    As for IRQ I have checked mine and I seem to have A LOT more IRQ's then you do, it seems you either don't have the right drivers installed for other devices or you have too many PCI expansion cards and your running into bottlenecks with different devices fighting over the same bandwidth.

    You can PM me if you want a Driver Easy key, just download the free version from HERE and run it, if it shows you have out of date or missing drivers then PM me and I will send you over a key.

    Or you could try and enable MSI-mode using this program MSI_util_v2

    There is a great thread open HERE about this program, for me I just run the program as Admin, tick whichever boxes are not ticked and then select my GPU and in the drop down box set it to high priority and then reboot. This program helps with IRQ's and is meant to give certain hardware uninterrupted data and can help with performance. Most say its just hearsay but I went down the rabbit hole and I always set this. Just a quick tip, whenever you install new GPU drivers you need to reenable MSI mode after you reboot.
     
  7. joe187

    joe187 Master Guru

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    i think just enable MSI mode for the gpu and call it a day. I do that for my older intel system which otherwise insists on sharing the nvidia-gpu irq.

    Also, my main PC is an amd b450 board but also my DMA says "no drivers installed", also i don't install the amd chipset drivers i had too many issues early on with them. i let windows update any chipset drivers as they are more up to date and it seemed that's when my issues were resolved. I don't think the DMA actually needs any actual driver files?
     
  8. Only Intruder

    Only Intruder Maha Guru

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    This has nothing to do with DMA - Direct Memory Access - this is a system that allows hardware to directly communicate with memory (for example, hard drives being able to copy data from ram without it being processed by the CPU), it has nothing to do with configuration of PCIe links, interrupt channels or MSI modes. (Technically speaking DMA controllers have IRQs themselves but the point is they're used to bypass the CPU) https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/Direct-Memory-Access-DMA See this, it briefly explains it. Regardless, DMA is a transparent system and unless you're using a third party controller, it's handled by the CPU/Chipset and doesn't need drivers that aren't already provided by OS level or chipset drivers.

    An interrupt channel is something that overrides what a CPU is doing when it transfers data. The easiest method to explain this is a PS/2 Mouse or Keyboard. This uses a physical interrupt channel and when actuated (so a key press or mouse movement) deliberately sends a signal to the CPU "interrupting" it to indicate a new instruction.

    Now, the real problem is, why would your GPU be sharing Interrupts with SATA/USB/Audio etc? My first thought is, what physical PCIe slot are you using? If you're not using the primary PCIe slot, then you'll be sharing PCIe lanes with the chipset which could be showing problems. If this isn't the case, then what is the speed of the pcie link your GPU is running at? Is it 3.0 16x under load? If not then there is another problem. It could likely mean an incorrect bios configuration or it could be a faulty windows installation (such as not installing correct drivers), the next question is, why is your GPU using an IRQ at all? It should be using MSI mode anyway, this could be again another bios configuration issue - are you running in UEFI mode or CSM Compatibility mode? Lastly, unless you're experiencing actual performance issues, in most modern systems, the interrupt channel shown as a shared channel is simply for compatibility dependencies (PCIe devices normally use MSI mode anyway unlike the older PCI standard and is normally managed by drivers).

    Finally, are you actually having problems with your computer or are you looking for problems?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
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  9. MelodyUT

    MelodyUT New Member

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    Just subscribed to answer here.

    My friend haze is actually looking for DMA drivers for his motherboard by asking in several forums. I know myself DMA drivers shouldn't actually be a thing (I have formatted and tweaked many many computers and fixed many computers in Input Busters group in which haze is also in).

    Now, sharing resources is a normal thing, so I think haze just misunderstood what I told him 2 days ago.

    The actual problem is that his system does something I've never seen in modern computers. His OS assigns actual IRQs to PCI-E ports, which definitely leads me to think that DMA doesn't work.

    I have tried Windows 7 before in my own system (fully updated and with all drivers correctly installed). As opposed to Windows 10, Windows 7 actually assigns IRQs to PCI-E ports in this computer and it detects a device named "Direct memory access controller" in "System devices" which says "No device drivers are installed for this device".

    On Windows 10, on my own computer, PCI-E ports don't have any IRQ when checking msinfo32 and there is no "Direct memory access controller" device in "System devices" as opposed to Windows 7.
     
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  10. Only Intruder

    Only Intruder Maha Guru

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    His device manager listing looks entirely normal

    Here's a screenshot from my system for comparison
    [​IMG]

    Is he actually having problems? Instability? Stuttering or poor performance? Or is he chasing ghosts again? Please don't take this the wrong way, Haze does have a tendency to look for problems when there are none to which he tries "fixing" it then causing an actual problem.

    The best way to tell if you're having IRQ sharing issues is to test for DPC latency with latencymon - it is known that nvidia GPU drivers can be problematic in this regard.

    Edit: Simply do this, DDU current GPU drivers, install known drivers that work well, use software linked by other members in this thread to ensure GPU is operating in MSI mode. Do not be overly concerned if GPU is shown using IRQ channels, it's normal and ignore the DMA channel, it's perfectly normal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019

  11. x58haze

    x58haze Master Guru

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    The thing is fella Intruder, that not everyone is sensitive enough to tell differences between 60-75-85-144 hz panel, nor to tell difference between 1ms-200 ms input lag, and so on&on, so when you said that I'm always chasing ghost where there aren't that's a little bit insensitive of your part, It's likely you probably never
    witness a real input/visual lag, or probably with all respect you are not very aware of the situation or nor that sensitive enough to tell that there is visual lag/input lag in your on, and then you come with the conclusion that people is chasing ghosts and stuff like that while that's ain't true.

    So I came here because I know in these forums there are some techie guys that know their stuff; that are aware of these problems, and is not just about changing a piece of hardware, nor moving from a house to another house, nope. Like real deal with electricity, measuring RFI, hardware that required firmware upgrade or downgrade, required tweaking some bios options inside like SPREAD-SPRECTUM, in some ways, because the CPU BUS is not reaching 100 as it should and stuck on 99.75 <-- and it's already a proven fact that many Users from Reddit/Steam/Nvidia forums and included in our Group of Input Busters, that the Spread Sprectum even when not overclocking aka running CPU base clock, is causing real issues on our computers/laptop.

    So when I come here is not just to joke about ,or looking for problems, or to try to act like a wise person and bully others nope, In fact I just like to measure stuff diagnose stuff and fix stuff and also learn from People that has Empathy such my dear friend @MelodyUT , she already have helped many people within the pass of the years, but she is very aware that, If we the people work in groups we can achieve/find new things and save time for others.

    I'm quite disappointing a bit, cause People here know that I have even Tweaked/custom Bios-firmware, That I have created interesting topics when comes to High Event Precision timer and the motherboard firmware not assigning properly IRQ to integrated peripherals or external peripherals, when running PCI-FIRMWARE Option In Windows, also contacted Motherboard Manufacturer to explain this issues, and they were so aware of my case and they were quite curious and learn from this things I've explained them, encourage them to create a custom Bios-firmware for me.

    So with this all said, I just ask for consideration, Don't just try to act like a Wise person only because you think Latency Moon will gave you low numbers, while is not all about numbers, you need to witness it with your eyes, as I state in the mbk1969 user via his thread: Windows Line Basement vs Message Interrupt Signals

    Telling them that the computers works much better with PCI integrated devices working on Window-Line basement instead of MSI <-- this can be confirmed my friend Melody that works for companies such Google/Microsoft etc,etc.

    A you probably would said: then if she works there, why you are asking for help? its easy, because even big corporations such Microsoft, Google, Nvidia, need people that dive in and find for some bugs/issues in their drivers/devices, etc,etc So is not perfect.

    So thanks for your time Intruder, just wanted to let you know that, is it good to work together and be more empathic, cheers and excuse me for my poor grammar.
     
  12. Only Intruder

    Only Intruder Maha Guru

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    I can appreciate all that (I'm a 144hz user too so I can understand), it's why I'm asking what problems you're witnessing, are you getting stuttering and poor performance or not?

    I've underlined a small quote section from my previous post, this is the important part. We can't find the root of the problem without the proper symptoms first as the information you provided is the attempt to diagnose the fault.

    I do apologise if my comment has offended you, it is meant as an observation from your previous posts, you do have a tendency to put yourself in the deep end without preparing for it (and to some degree a reminder to be careful with tweaking things without a full understanding).
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  13. MelodyUT

    MelodyUT New Member

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    Haze might be a bit like that sometimes, but he has good reasons. Haze has been having input inconsistency, stuttering and visual lag problems for years now.

    I've built a very similar system to his around 1 year ago with same exact CPU (Ryzen 5 1600) and same exact motherboard (Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4) and only different components being RAM (16 GB 2666 MHz dual-channel) and RX 580 8 GB. After building the system, I was experiencing similar input lag and stuttering issues to his (but not that much), but when I tweaked the OS with my own configurations (disable all process mitigations, disable all per-process process mitigations, disable spectre patch, tweak paging pools and pagefile, apply some Image File Execution options to processes like TiWorker, etc.) all of that disappeared. This doesn't apply to haze even though he has a perfectly similar system and I performed all my modifications on his computer too.

    Unfortunately, that motherboard broke (doesn't start anymore, 2 integrates burned and turned black while playing) and, at times, I didn't check whether that DMA device was appearing in Device Manager or not. Still, I can safely say that, after applying all my tweaks, I wasn't having any stuttering, visual lag, framerate drop or input lag problems.

    Edit: LatencyMon actually shows very low values on haze's computer.
     
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  14. Only Intruder

    Only Intruder Maha Guru

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    Are there any specific games it's occurring in or is it in everything?

    Oh, I actually overlooked one detail mentioned in this thread, when a computer is assigning IRQ channels (as in channels 0 through to 15. There are only a fixed amount of channels, channels 16 and over are virtual) although for expansion devices, only 10, 11, 14 or 15 are typically assigned to additional hardware. When this is happening on a modern system, it's typically indicative of legacy mode (so CSM mode being enabled) or compatibility mode being enabled for older operating systems, if this is happening, at least in windows when the kernel takes over, it's possible to reassign what interrupt channel type is being used in the registry.

    Also in what way has the pagefile been modified? Windows 10 can be troublesome with editing the pagefile location/size. I also see he has 8GB of RAM so he definitely needs a pagefile and best left to auto so windows can dynamically adjust the size as needed in my experience.

    If latencymon isn't showing issues, then we can pretty much rule out IRQ channels being an issue, I'm inclined to think this could be a media issue (as in where games are loaded from), could even be ram capacity issues, 8GB is on the borderline for new games. Really could do with a full detail of hardware and physical installation locations. (such as for storage, are primary sata ports being used or secondary controller ports being used etc), it could still be driver or software issues though. I used to have a really annoying stutter that would occur which turned out to be a driver fault just for having a second monitor connected to my system.

    Another thing to make note of, some games can show poor performance with some monitoring tools, particularly when using an overlay so in these instances, it's best to disable the overlay and log to a file instead.

    In general though, I think looking at IRQ channels to then look at DMA is a rather specific thing to do and I would say it's similar to how a patient with an illness looks up their symptoms and ends up giving a self-diagnosis of an obscure rare disease but after seeing a doctor, find out it's just hay fever. So my point is, we really should focus on the basics and work from there, who knows it could be as daft as a faulty sata cable... (this has legitimately been a fix I've encountered before, person having really bad performance in games, turned out their sata cable just "wore out" is best way I can describe despite never being touched).
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  15. MelodyUT

    MelodyUT New Member

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    It happens to him in basically all games. Some minor tweaking can improve the situation (like NVIDIA Inspector tweaks) but, apparently, it doesn't seem to be that effective. Mouse inconsistency / input lag and major visual lag are still there after all that.

    He tried both Legacy and UEFI mode, nothing changed.

    In my PC, I modified the pagefile so that it's big enough to not make some games go out of memory with 8 GB RAM (GTA Online, I'm blaming you :mad:). Also I prefer having the pagefile in the primary system drive. Been having some MEMORY_MANAGEMENT BSoDs when putting the pagefile in other drives, not only with this PC.

    This is how IRQs look like in my perfectly working PC (no stuttering, no visual lag, no input lag):
    https://imgur.com/a/zIpp5Bn

    I had to change MSI to OFF for USB controller because mouse movements weren't natural and were inconsistent. After that, I figured that, in my system, disabling MSI on all integrated peripherals made things better in both LatencyMon and actual gaming feeling.
     
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  16. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    nvm...
     
  17. MelodyUT

    MelodyUT New Member

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  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    oh, but didn't you hear Melody? Nvidia has DPC latency problems always and the few sheep on reddit won't be told any differently!

    Haze, try a power conditioner between your PC and Wallsocket, obviously these aren't cheap but Local power has been a factor in stuttering cases on numerous occasions in the past

    This issue seems to occur often with PSU's that have active PFC but aren't on 110V grids.
     
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  19. x58haze

    x58haze Master Guru

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    Yeah bro, this what melody told me to do, to get a good Power conditioner + UPS double conversion sinewave, among a good Voltage regulator+amperage (I know this products are hella expensive, but it's worth to buying, cause it cures 100% the visual lag on many people in Reddit/Nvidia/ steam forums. Is quite amazing how the electricity fu.. of things :/

    But the thing is here in Venezuela situation is aff terrible, hope to do that in Chile soon, But at the moment the Chilean government haven't yet approval my VISA, still on awaiting.

    but +1 for mention the PSU.
     
  20. MelodyUT

    MelodyUT New Member

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    NVIDIA's DPC latency issues are caused by GPU downclock. Set LatencyMon to run with "Prefer maximum performance" and the problem will disappear.
     
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