9 more games adding support for NVIDIA DLSS

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Not really a troll. Everyone here knows how well nVidia's technologies run on other platforms. They either do not run, or run with higher performance impact.
    nVidia never approached game developers from kindness of their heart. And if you were to judge by results, it would be more like: "With malicious intent."

    When AMD lived in world of intel's compiler, I bet you was not very happy about it. This is not so different. I simply do not want to be feeding "way it meant to be broken for others and sometimes for us too".
    It is no different than me not buying physX games. Later gameworks games. I make exception to rule from time to time. And it is enough to know that rule is still needed.
    DLSS is very likely just another mine in minefield.
    - - - -
    So it is very realism on my side which makes me to wait and see what happens with game now before I buy it.
     
  2. moo100times

    moo100times Master Guru

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    I honestly am also dubious around what Nvidia is going to deliver, and how they will try and implement. Particularly, what kind of financial cost as well as system cost with regards to overheads and required software installs to keep it all ticking above board. I also question around whether Nvidia has any realistic thoughts around a decent linux driver for their new GPU's if this is the approach they are going to take and needs to be distributed through their own proprietary windows software.
    I had always been a keen advocate of steamOS and vulkan myself, so seeing companies push towards a potentially strong windows based gaming environment does not fill me with hope either.

    And to comment on the DLSS, I think people all have different standards of what they wish to experience when gaming and using PC in general, however when they are touting full 4k 60fps gaming for their new card and then putting it in the same slide as DLSS, it seems strongly like false advertising. I would expect such a declaration to be without gimmicks at this stage. It also raises the question, for me, that whether you will need an internet connection every time you want to enable this feature for an update, as well as what other information the software and gpu will harvest in order to enable DLSS on other aspects of your system at a later date. Honestly, considering the data protection laws and things coming out recently, why would you want another company to have a continuous connection so you can actually use the features of the device?
    I do actually wonder if this a more gradual push to nvidia cloud gaming, and they will use this data to optimise their own service and push it on to users in the long term
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do quite agree with your 1st paragraph.
    But in defense of DLSS, it is supposedly lighter than standard AA methods. So it is more likely to achieve 4K@60fps with DLSS than standard AA methods.
    ... It remains to be seen. And one should actually see 1st what other changes in game engine are needed to hook this AA properly instead of standard AA.
     
  4. nicugoalkeper

    nicugoalkeper Master Guru

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    I still don't know what the problem is ?
    1. Over the years we got a slow pace of new tech. that improves image quality or helps game developers to get the same results but at a faster pace.
    2. Nvidia is playing their cards right, as long as AMD is still lagging. Nvidia are going slow (money is power).
    3. The tech is not tested by us (end users), let's wait and see if it is good or not.
    4. So much talk about 4K but end user (PC) is still using 1080 so no point to push it so hard se here and look at video RAM over 6 GB:
    https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
    If we look on other sectors, is the same:
    - DVB-C and 4K almost none !
    - DVB-S/S2/S2X and 4K a little better that DVB-C !
    - Console gaming 4K more like upscaling !
    - Movies are doing a little better ...
    So what is the point to invest in new tech for 4K as long as not even 25% of gamers are playing in 4k !
     

  5. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    I can't find the article i originally read about it, but this one goes through a bit of it. It is basically 1080p being upscaled through the tensor cores, which is supposed to make it look more clean than normal upscaling, hence why they can do "4k" at much higher fps with dlss than native 4k, but it still isn't going to be native 4k in terms of quality.

    http://www.redgamingtech.com/geforce-rtx-analysis-how-ray-tracing-dlss-works-part-1/
     
  6. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    So, theoretically, you'll have 2 options. Go with 4k for crisper image at a performance hit or go with DLSS and still have good enough IQ (hopefully) and get a performance boost. Options. Nothing wrong with that.
     
  7. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    I am all for options, but they should stop claiming than 1080p upscaled to 4k with dlss is true 4k, because it isn't regardless of the upscaling method used.
     
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  8. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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  9. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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  10. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Compared to speculations from random forum goers... I'll take Nvidia promo material.
     
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  11. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    They are known for absolute bs promotional material, so i certainly won't...

    "DLSS IS AMAZEBALLZ!!!!111 JUST SEE THIS DLSS ON OFF COMPARISON !!!11

    Dlss off

    [​IMG]

    Dlss on !!!!11

    [​IMG]

    OMG LOOK HOW AMAZING IT IS, BUY RTX RIGHT NOW!!!!111"

    I can just imagine Jen-Hsun Huang standing on the stage saying it...
     
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  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Thing is that TAA reduces sharpness in comparison with regular AA or no AA by 30% and more. Some games with TAA played on 1080p feel like they are being rendered at 1280x720.
     
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  13. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    AMD fanboys will always throw dirt on Nvidia and before you freak out (you know who you're...) I'm on AMD myself using an RX580 at the moment.

    The only thing I find strange though is why such technologies always end up being proprietary? Doesn't it benefit all if it's open and maintained regularly?
     
  14. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Damn, I need to preorder now! Two of 'em! I mean, I get to meet the girl, right? :D;)



    Not necessarily... if you earn more with such proprietary tech than you need to pay your driver teams and software engineers that work with the devs, it doesn't make you earn money. And that's the only thing that interests a company that wants to maximize profit.
    If that's the "right" thing to do, depends on what your goal is, of course. And maximizing profit seldomly works with being open source.
     
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  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Most Nvidia gameworks libraries are maintained regularly and while they are not technically "open source" you can see the source through Nvidia's Github.

    In the case with DLSS, Nvidia's engineers are doing the bulk of the work, taking the game code, creating hundreds of thousands of training images from it, running those images through their trained neural net on their own Saturn V supercomputer, packaging it back into the game and then inferencing that data locally on Tensor cores, which are only available on Nvidia hardware. So I'm sure Nvidia wants all that work/cost to benefit their ecosystem primarily. From what I understand the adoption of DLSS should be pretty quick because it's relatively easy to implement, Nvidia does all the work and most of these devs are checking their code with Nvidia anyway for driver purposes.
     
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  16. Prince Valiant

    Prince Valiant Master Guru

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    It's also dependent on Nvidia and dead if they drop it. I'd be excited about a method that wasn't dependent on continued support. I'm still interested in seeing 3rd party image quality comparisons but I'm not holding my breath.
     
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  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Well technically the method itself can be trained with a game devs computer and integrated via NGX which is available to developers. No one is doing that because it's easier to have Nvidia do it.. but anyone can utilize the technique and tensor hardware.

    DLAA isn't upscaling from 1080p. I'm actually kind of curious to what's going on behind the scene to generate the sample images for scaling. I guess 2X doesn't scale at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  18. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Apart from the trolls, DLSS is great. What is not great is that it is currently working per app.

    If I can have the choice between 4k60 medium and 4k60 ultra with DLSS in the future, the answer is very clear cut.

    I never understood the resolution purists. If it looks the same, does it matter? If anything, increases in compute power and things like checkerboarding and DLSS will make games amazing in the future, as Shader effects and things like raytracing will be much cheaper.

    Edit: Most people also have zero clue about what machine learning can do. If they can do this https://news.developer.nvidia.com/n...e-reconstructs-photos-with-realistic-results/
    They can do some AA for our shitty games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  19. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Honestly if it lets me upscale and not suffer any real loss of performance but manage to make the game look better, I'm all for it. I wish it was more open, but nothing we can really do too much about it.
     
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Frankly, it seems to be quite "open", in the sense that nothing stops AMD from doing something similar. Sharing the machine learned data is something at the hand of the developers, is my guess, but I cannot see AMD managing to approach this without dedicated hw. I can see some circumstances where compute monsters with flexible pipelines like Vega can approach this, but it will not be the same and it will. Be impossible for smaller chips.

    It seems that nvidia I'll not be phasing out Pascal for the lower end just yet either, the due sizes for these are insane.
     

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