9 more games adding support for NVIDIA DLSS

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    Hmm, DLSS/AA/Upscaling/Increased Performance. If you've got a 4K monitor, then I'd assume image quality is of paramount importance to you (by definition), so I don't really see why such users would want a somewhat inferior upscaled image (albeit with increased framerate), otherwise they'd have a 1080p monitor I guess! For the AA side of DLSS, depends how good it is at removing jaggies without creating blur - this could be the best thing about DLSS from where I see it.
     
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  2. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

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    @Dragam1337
    Not if "you" know how to upscale.
    Unless you want to tell me that millions on this planet
    that were willing to pay 10 to 15$/€ for a 3Dmovie ticket watching content upscaled, which every movie was,
    that was made/produced before 4K was used in hollywood.

    If ppl are happy paying money to watch upscaled content on a 50ft screen, i would say it will work on a 50in/a monitor as well...
     
  3. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

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    Cared enough to reply to him.
     
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  4. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    As a 4K gamer, I can't see myself using DLSS. Even if it looked nice, I'd be aware that it isn't true 4K and it would instantly kill my enthusiasm. I can't even use the word "upscaling" without shuddering in disgust - it goes against every enthusiast bone in my body. I reserve similar disdain for digital zoom.
     
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  5. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    You can't in any way compare movies to games. Movies are either shot on film, which is technically of infinite resolution, or shot digitally at a very high resolution, and then downsampled to 1080p... and then in some cases upscaled again to 4k, which only works because it had been downsampled in the first place... raw 1080p footage upscaled to 4k looks terribad. And the same goes for games that are rendered at 1080p and upscaled to 4k... terribad image quality.

    The only ones who would argue against this, are people who hasn't gamed at native 4k, or better yet, 4k with downsampling.

    As for what millions did... germany 80 years ago, need i say more? Just because people are dumber than **** and buys into bs markerting, doesn't mean you have to either. And no, i never bought into "3d".
     
  6. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    DLSS primary goal is to be a fast high quality anti-aliasing method, specifically for high resolution gaming, where conventional AA eats a significant chunk of performance. Actually rendering the game low res and upscaling it is not the intent here. Not even sure where people get that.

    DLSS stands for Deep Learning Super Sampling. Its already in the name - Super Sampling is the process of rendering or scaling beyond display resolution to gain image fidelity (primarily for AA). There is nothing in there about rendering low res and upscaling then.
     
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  7. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

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    Then how is it that no one ever complained about 1080 being upscaled to 4k (digital projector, so no "analog" feed from a reel) to do 3D in theaters, before movies were shot in 4k/digital?

    And there is no difference when comparing a digital movie to a game.
    A pixel is a pixel, and if a game is upscaled, it works the same way no matter the content.

    Not talking about anything but image quality/detail, not motion etc.
     
  8. Pimpiklem

    Pimpiklem Member Guru

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    This i s bad for the industry
    List of games i wont be buying how wonderful

    all because nvidia AA is not fit for purpose
     
  9. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    Actually there is a difference - games have much more fine details that don't always scale well, like the user interface (text etc). Scaling small text can end up really terrible. For small (desktop-sized) text to really look good you use sub-pixel rendering. You cannot do sub-pixel rendering if your pixels are being changed after the text was rendered.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  10. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    So if they invent a new AA method thats slower but a bit higher quality, thats fine. But if they invent one thats fast and high quality, thats suddenly bad for the industry? Why is gaming faster ever bad? :)
     
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  11. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    You might as well play at a lower resolution then. There is no point to playing at 4K if the image is just 2.5K that's been upscaled with some AI techniques. This is basically how I see DLSS, which is why I cannot support it (I did not get a 4K monitor just so I can game at 2.5K that's been upscaled).
     
  12. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    DLSS is trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist until you are on large TV's. Most of us playing on 27-32" monitors at 4k just don't care because there is no real need for AA.
     
  13. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    But thats not how it works. It renders in native resolution. It works quite similar to SSAA, but fast. It upscales the edges and then downscales it back, but in smooth. Hence the Super Sampling in its name.
     
  14. devastator

    devastator Member Guru

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    do u think there be cut down chips of 2080ti and 2080 as both use different chips and when some are bad they will for cut down but what could they name them 2070ti is one but what cutdown name for 2080ti?
     
  15. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    Costs more to get a new form of AA... If they had improved SGSSAA or RGSSAA at high FPS in 4K, I would have been super excited but we already have TSAA, FXAA, MLAA and other blurry options... which can be fixed with a sharpen filter...
     

  16. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    How do you suggest improving anti-aliasing techniques that by their inherent definition are straight up running the game at higher resolution then using specific techniques (which aren't the part that incurs the performance hit) to scale that down to your native resolution?
     
  17. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    What am I even reading here? Am I on reddit? So Nvidia come up with a new form of AA and game developers are jumping onboard.

    Let's see, we could just ignore it if we're on AMD or current Nvidia hardware, or be curious about how it will improve image quality in games and at what performance cost. That's what I'm doing. Nothing much to lose.

    Yet, for whatever reason, most of this thread is just salty bitching. Why? Would we rather be stuck in 2010 and not innovate?

    The levels of self entitlement are through the roof. I've noticed this trend over the past few years, we seem to be getting more and more misinformed people all over the internet and all they talk about is how they this and that. Getting seriously tedious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  18. Prince Valiant

    Prince Valiant Master Guru

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    It's not like we've churned through those over the years :rolleyes:.
     
  19. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Yet this method of AA is completely unlike any previous method and people with no knowledge about how Deep Learning works, or even machine learning and neural networks in general, nor any semblance of an idea regarding the actual implementation, (predict supersampled frame, downsample to native resolution) are talking out of their ass through the entire thread.

    Up till now, we have had brute-force supersampling (SSAA), spatial (e.g. MSAA), temporal (e.g. TAA), and post-process (e.g. FXAA) anti-aliasing techniques. We have never had anything related to a machine learning approach. The latest paradigm shift in the technological world is machine learning, precisely because we now have the hardware to accelerate it on orders of magnitude, beyond previous limits. Nvidia literally manufactures the fastest GPUs on this planet for datacenters and supercomputers, they might know a thing or two about Deep Learning approaches on their GPUs and how effective they could be. They obviously aren't lacking in the theoretical approach to machine learning either.
     
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  20. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    come on fox stop trolling every nvidia thread
    ok ok you are entitled to your opinion but why post that?
    ss4 is going to kick butt and take names,its a game like that in will be great to see.
    since they pretty much are pc first with all sorts of settings
    they have something that's going to be "free aa" and you cry like a 2 year old that's pretty sad.
    tell us how great amd is to pc visuals in the last decade
     

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