Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by guruboy, Dec 26, 2006.
a GTS struggles to do 20K in 3dmark05, let alone a 8600GT if thats a slower card
I belive it will be a 8XXX agp card !!
Besides if you got the money for a 8800GTX, it'd be strange if u can't even pay a 150 bucks extra for a mainboard.
I'm gonna get one... only 500$ to go, yay!
Now were are those job applications for students during the holidays...
Dude... Just build a whole new rig instead...
lol i would buy it. if only i had an agp slot, only pci here sadly
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
This really needs to stop.
pci-express bandwidth is here for the future.
the spec is made in year X, so that by the time it is retured in year X+Y it is just running out of bandwidth.
Truth is, for games, agp 8x offers TWICE the bandwidth necessay to meet throughput requirements.
The video card bus bandwidth issue is a white elephant. It is far in excess of even the fastest video needs today.
There are tons of limiting factors in a computer. The video card bus? not one of them. not even close. not _today_.
if you don't believe me, look at this :
Look at these transfer rates :
133 MB/s (u/d)
533 MB/s (up)
1,066 MB/s (up)
2,133 MB/s (up)
PCI Express x1
250 MB/s (up+down)
PCI Express x2
500 MB/s (up+down)
PCI Express x4
1,000 MB/s (up+down)
PCI Express x8
2,000 MB/s (up+down)
PCI Express x16
4,000 MB/s (up+down)
PCI Express x32
8,000 MB/s (up+down)
Hmm, PCIE16 is 2x the (full duplex) bandwidth of AGP8.
PCIE16 has 2000mb/sec up + 2000mb/sec down (4000 total)
AGP8X has 2133 mb/sec up + 266mb/sec down (2399 total)
For computer gaming (graphics) you only need the up speed to be high.
With PCIE16 you're only able to send 2000mb/sec up to the video card (and 2000 mb/sec down from it). This is actually LESS than the 2133mb/sec that AGP8x can do up to the video card (though, only 266mb/sec down).
As far as gaming performance goes, it is ALMOST IDENTICAL to agp 8x.
So you can't claim fps games on account of bandwidth.
The reason PCIE is here is because general purpose GPU computing requires a fast way to get data off of the video card back into ram.
NOT because computer gaming needs more bandwidth to the video card.
as this guy said the only reason for pciex is to sell all of us new mobo and new cards as we never used full power of agp.and dont be surpized in the furture to see agp2 as soon as most have gone pciex,this is how companies make their $$$ .only giving a little out at a time.
p.s yes there was a 7series card for agp only released in uk.
I'm sorry but, what the hell is wrong with you people? Arguing about a video card that does not and or probably will not exist? Fact of the matter is, for you Guruboy, your XP3000+ is bottlenecking your X850XT PE a bit, all you would do is further compound the bottleneck with a faster card.
Do you really think that an Nvidia rep is going to stumble in here and see you whining about how you want a faster AGP card, then say to themselves, "hmm we should spend millions of development $$$ to make this guy happy"? No, of course they won't. You could get an AGP 7800GS or the harder to find GS+ 512s if you wanted an upgrade.
It's just not going to happen. Why? Because the vast majority of AGP users that are still out there, do not want to spend $600 on an AGP card in a dead technology, and are probably waiting to just upgrade their whole system. As that is the far more logical thing to do rather than waste money on a dead end street. Also it is not good business sense for a company to spend a large amount of money to reverse engineer their high end cards for a market that is virtually non existent. So you would buy one. So what? They will make no money on the few people that are stupid enough to buy a video card that is probably going to cost more than the whole of the PC they they would be putting it in. (yours included Guruboy). And not to mention that they would have to charge even more that a standard 8800GTX just to cover the cost of the process. (remember the severely inflated prices of the 7800GS AGP?)
AGP is dead/dying face it. It's time to move on with the rest of the world. People always get like this when they realize that they are at the end of their upgrade path. It happens to everybody, and the ruthless march of technology will not stop just to make you happy. Fall in or fall behind, it's just that simple.
Mad is such a strong word, Im upset that some lunatic is going around these forums and various threads ranting because hes mad at his computer.
At those who are saying that the AGP version wouldn't see a lower FPS due to bandwidth with the settings higher:
The data from a PCI Express device will no longer have to travel over a single bus, or a single dedicated connection, but can use a combination of these two-way serial connections to optimize throughput. The terms “lane” and “link” don’t sound like anything overly technical, but take on special meaning with PCI Express. A link is the physical connection between PCI Express devices, which can consist of multiple lanes that transmit and receive data independently. Links can be composed of 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 16, or 32 lanes, and the configuration allows flexibility in assigning just as many lanes as needed to any particular device. There are obvious benefits to this approach, and a few of the more significant include the following points…
Each lane of PCI Express communication is dedicated between two points, so there is no sharing of bandwidth. PCI’s main bottleneck was that all the devices were sharing the equivalent of one lane, and all of the available bandwidth also had to be shared.
Multiple lanes can be assigned to devices whose performance would benefit from the extra speed and bandwidth. A PCI Express graphics card might be assigned 16 lanes (also referred to as x16), while a network adaptor might be assigned just 1 lane. Each lane you make available to a device increases the potential for performance, as the data is sequenced up/down each available lane to optimize throughput. This process of sending the next byte of data down the next available lane is referred to as data striping, and obviously more lanes are better for instances where a good deal of data needs to be transmitted quickly.
So AGP has 8 lanes that are shared, and PCI-E has 16 lanes that are all dedicated. Plus, when you add more things to the game, like um say higher AA and AF, you are adding to the traffic on the bus lanes. More info to go on the lanes means more things to bottleneck the card. It won't make it less of a bottleneck...come on. If you have a freeway with 100 cars on 4 lanes, they will be able to move quickly around, but if you ADD more to the freeway, say like 1000000 cars, things will slow down. Since we are talking about the 8800 series, we can say that there would be 1000000 cars on the freeway and 10 extra lanes closed.
So yes, the 8800 series would work no doubt, but why would you want to use something that in no way could ever reach its potential. That's like buying a dragster, putting it in the back of a trailer and driving the trailer around town instead of the dragster. you would have the power their waiting to be used, but you can't cause its locked up.
AGP is dead, sorry. Thats the way it is. You can spend the 600+ dollars it would cost for the AGP version (if it ever comes out, which I doubt), or you can save that money and do a whole pc upgrade. If you are still on an agp system, a new GFX card will not make your games or even your system run much better. Upgrade your system first then get a card that you could use to its potential.
Nice info Daimerous, thanks.
I think its obvious a 8800GTX/S for AGP would be pointless, on many levels.
Anyways i dont own an AGP mobo so it wouldnt affect me, but i could sit and giggle quietly at those who waited patiently and bought one IF it came out(which it wont)
Good PIONT !!
Just like hard drive tech , Serial TO Parallel and back to Serial !!!!
This guy wins for sure. :supercool
They would just do it for Bragging Rights
Also $$$$ would just be pasted on to the buyer
You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You or the guy you quoted. It's already been explained several time why it won't work and or will be extremely inefficient not to mention stupid to buy a $600+ video card for an out dated PC, when you could spend that same money and get your self up to date with the new technology. Companies do not "hold back" or just give a little at a time. That is almost the most foolish thing that I've heard in a while.
Tell me, you obviously must have $600+ to spend on a system. Correct? Doesn't this sound a lot more logical?
all for just $700 (which in all honesty would realistically probably be the asking price of an AGP 8800GTX) And you will be up to date with the latest hardware.
Seriously, stop whining about it. AGP is dead and obsolete.
Your just sayin that cuz u have AGP :look:
Thats all very good hardware ,, But I would get at lease a 8800gts
Maybe I should stop dreaming ..Xmas is over !!!!
There's absolutely no reason to make an AGP card that powerful. CPU bottleneck would be tremendous, NVidia would lose tons of money. If you would throw down $550 on a video card, one would hope you'd have made the upgrade to PCI-E by then.
I mean the best for a AGP rig..
lol this sounds so much like the 7800 never going agp conversations a year ago...anythings possible gents.i wouldnt hold my breathe tho lol.
im just curious as to why everyone is getting so upset?why not let the guy hope for a agp version?it would be intriguing to say the least.
WHY is everyone is getting so upset ???
I'm not asking for too much and it could happen ,, maybe
Lighten-up guys , its just a dream !!!!