Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by raul100, Jun 18, 2005.
lmao do you really think Nvidia would give the AGP market to ATI?
its the game itself.. remember its just a stupid port
It's not the game. I'm not blind. I've said and proven plenty.
I think I'm leaving now. There's nothing more I can do. I've documented the problem thoroughly enough to my standards. I don't care if any of you believe it exists or not. Goodbye.
After this discovery ( shimmering, moire patterns when using Anisotropic Filtering ) I would recommend the 6-Series as "Fast, but with broken image quality" cards.
The AF-issue we are talking about is *outrageous*. These cards are simply said *broken* !!!
Or, if they take out AF from the feature-list of these cards, I would say it`s OK... it`s a fast card.. but let`s not talk about AF... because it`s not just that you can`t compare it quality-wise with the FX-series cards, but it can be easily considered *broken AF*.
Personally I am very very disappointed...
I want my FX back...
... because OK, the FX was slow when running complex shaders, but it had *beautify AF quality*, and let`s face it... the FX ( I had 5900xt ) could run well any game you could care about... with one-or-two exceptions, which did not run so well ( like HL2 with the DX-9 codepath - but it was very well *playable* ). And the rest of the games still don`t use Shaders 2.0, not even these days. There are a very few *real shaders 2.0* games out there... So right now, I would be better off with my old FX...
... that`s it
They fixed the shaders, and broke the filtering.
But... I still have hope this can be fixed in the drivers.
There are ****e loads of shader 2.0 games, maybe shader 3.0 is what you mean. lol I don't get the shimmer problem with or without AF. Maybe some cards have cheap RAMDAC or something. The image quality on my 6800 GT wees all over my 5900 XT.
*pops back in* Prove it.
thats weird,, my 6800,6600gt have no problem with aa,af at all
I do appreciate the response. I know I said I was leaving, but, eh...
Hehe. We should start looking for patterns here. Todorov, you also have a Leadtek, nearly the same card as mine, only mine is AGP and not "Extreme Edition."
It's not a problem with some people not having the problem, everyone with a 6XXX or newer has the texture aliasing/shimmering, however not everyone notices it. And nVidia fixed it in *most* games last year. Some people simply don't run games that exhibit the problem, however, I promise you if you find a game that does exhibit the problem and take a screenshot there and have everyone take the screenshot at the exact same spot, everyone will have it. Texture aliasing has nothing to do with RAMDACs, and raising the level of AF actually increases the shimmering because not enough texture samples are taken for the higher levels of AF. You'll find that no AF actually exhibits the least aliasing/shimmering, in games that exhibit the problem.
Anyways, I've had my 6800 GT for almost a year now, and I have learned to live with it, plus I don't have too many games that it can't be fixed by either putting the Image Quality on High Quality or turning on the negative LOD clamp.
I guess I kind of have to agree there, particleman -- I've learned to live with it, too, mostly. With an LOD bias of 0.5 (clamping the LOD bias does not do it for Guild Wars), the problem is pretty unnoticeable, and with Far Cry I can't say I notice it at all, but it depends on the textures I guess.
Maybe I'll go back to forgetting about it again, since 0.5 helps a lot. But I don't really see how nVidia could have "solved" the problem unless they put in little "cheats" which increased the LOD bias to a positive number themselves for certain games.
As for the GTA: SA stuff, that's the only real big "phenomenon" here, although maybe it's related to the AF sampling thing you mentioned, particleman, and somehow the in-game AF corrects for that possible issue, though I really can't say. None of that horrible aliasing occurs with in-game AF but somehow does with driver AF, and it wasn't like that with my Ti4200--that, of course, I've confirmed.
A website has finally done a write up on the shimmering issue. It's still in german but 3Dcenter pretty much always releases english versions of their articles shortly after. It's true the 7800 has even worse shimmering.
My gosh. I really am surprised it took them (and by them I mean any sort of "media" at all) to mention it.
I'll try to remember to read the English version.
Couldn't wait for it to come in English, so I used Babelfish, though I didn't need it for the main section I'm commenting on: the videos.
Wow. That's really noticeable. Ugh!
And that's about all I have to say, except for everything that I'm about to say. It's annoying, and even supersampling doesn't eliminate the problem (and I have to say, in trying it recently I barely noticed a difference in regard to it). Fortunately in most circumstances you have to pay attention to it--at least with LOD bias at 0.3. I wouldn't go back to 0, hehe. Too much shimmering there, even in High Quality (I'll say that for the millionth time though I need not say it by now--even in High Quality).
And I'll restate my opinion about the whole issue: nyuh! The card I bought should have been $90, not $180. In fact, I should get a full refund (and get to keep the card) because, in a way, I was lied to.
... and another thing. Screw nVidia.
Oh, also. The FX really gets it right. Even better than the x800 (well, duh). And not so much regarding shimmering--the FX textures just looks better, and the way the angles are handled is the way they should be handled in next-generation cards if not better. Sad.
Good news: Just saw this on the front page of nvnews. Hopefully we have a driver to fix the issue soon.
"The shimmering issue is being addressed by NVIDIA and they hope to have a fix soon. Brian Burke from NVIDIA e-mailed us regarding it (see quote below). Meanwhile, you can check out some possible approaches to reduce or eliminate shimmering in some of your games in our forums. Here is another thread on this topic as well.
We have isolated the problem and we are working on the fix. We will also be working on a fix for the application profile problems that some users were experiencing. We hope to have a fix soon. --Brian Burke, NVIDIA Corp."
Doesn't it kinda make you wish a website had accused nVidia of something underhanded earlier just to speed up to pace at which they fix the problem?
just play with the LOD option in rivatuner geez...
1024x768, quality, AF16X, AA2X:
Ultra quality "fix" this AF issue (and moire also). But some times ultra quality is about 20% slower. I don't remember to see this AF thing playing with my 9800pro. And I used to enable all optimizations (ATI Tray Tools).