5700XT Overclocking Thread

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Eastcoasthandle, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    A few things about this thread.
    A. What app are you using to OC? Wattman? MSI A/B? Something else?
    B. Ram Max Frequency?
    C. Max Core Clock Frequency set to? Voltage for Core Clock? What is the CR frequency when in game?
    D. Fan Speed?
    E. Please provide which 5700xt model you are using?
    F: What games is this OC stable in?
    G. Temps you are seeing?
     
  2. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    A.

    Wattman due to quirks with both the driver software and the OverDrive8 API far as I'm understanding though the power tool from Igor's lab could allow for additional headroom as a sort of soft modding and increasing the limited defaults in Wattman without introducing other tools trying to hook into the AMD API's for this possibly causing issues until the drivers are more mature. :)

    https://www.igorslab.de/morepowerto...x-5700-xt-tweaking-and-overclocking-software/
    https://www.igorslab.de/en/making-t...ntly-quieter-with-the-morepowertool-tutorial/

    Works for both overclocking and what I'm doing which is more about undervolting. :)

    B.

    Due to GDDR6 limited readings and caps on stuff like voltage (Though the above tool might change that.) plus potential "holes" at which certain frequencies might hit error correction more or outright crash but above those it could work fine I've kept it to around 890 - 900 and there's a mix of Samsung and Micron memory with potentially Micron clocking higher, you'll have to take the cooler off though as there's no readings for which type is on the GPU in data via for example GPU-Z and the max of 950 can also be used or even higher or it could be unstable from title to title. (Outer Worlds was very unstable until 19.12.1 which really helped dial in stable overclock settings for this GPU, if those worked in that game they should be good for almost anything ha ha.)

    C.

    Older system so instead of hitting 2000 Mhz the GPU often hovered around 1900 - 1950 so instead of the kinda really high 2100 Mhz target and pushing voltage to it's limits around 1.250v I simply dialed it down to what it was hitting and started lowering the voltage and experimented with the power limit slider to where it ended at 1900 Mhz and 1.050mv giving a bit extra headroom as needed for stability with that additional 0.050mv and a power limit addition of 10% since from testing negative values start reducing the clock speeds even if they are lowered down manually in Wattman (Quirk?) and higher values cap out so it's more power drawn for no benefit but a bit extra helps the GPU speed from fluctuating a bit. (Hardware bottleneck here, hitting 2000 or 2050 Mhz would otherwise be doable too.)

    There's no real performance decrease on my end as the GPU is operating at the same speeds but with less power and a nice drop in temps though overall you might lose upwards of maybe 4% or so heh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dgkfyb/more_undervolting_results_on_a_reference_5700xt/
    (Can change though depending on testing and different software or games and how the GPU scales and performs.)



    Which as this video shows can be fine tuned to nearly halve the power draw keeping a similar level of performance and the temps is around a 30 degrees Celsius drop for the GPU core junction and depending on GPU model a 20 degree drop for edge GPU core temperature.

    D.

    Fan speed is messy since 19.7.3 often overshooting and scaling erratically but the "curve" which isn't actually a curve (Still! :p ) is keeping around a nice 30% though the actual RPM is inconsistent and as soon as it gets close to the next "step" it's up by a little bit around 40% but still fairly quiet around a 60 sometimes 70 degree junction temperature which is what the fan is targeted around. (Instead of 90 - 100 though it's not the surface or edge but junction and the limit is around 105 to 110 depending on GPU model and throttling at 110 I believe for the GPU core itself.)

    Even on Navi the "fan curve" is basically this stepping thing. :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e5zpqy/amd_fake_fan_curve/

    E.

    This is the mid-model of sorts 5700 XT Sapphire Pulse, dual fan but holds up well though not quite the "thickness" of the Nitro cooler or the size or the tri fans so temps are a little bit higher for memory, VRM's and core though speeds are basically identical though for full overclocking the headroom on the Devil and Nitro gives a bit of a edge. :) (Or a custom or waterblock going all out on the 5700 / XT if that's a thing heh.)

    Most custom models going by the TechPowerUp bios database also reduce SoC voltage from 1.2 to 1.050 but seemingly this has no real drawbacks but it's a thing.

    F.

    Stability wise other than driver quirks like D3D11 sporadic driver crashes as a known issue (DXVK and wrapping to Vulkan at a performance penalty has worked for that though.) the only stability issue was with The Outer Worlds requiring a readjustment of the voltage to remain stable (Well the game itself could crash anyway until a later driver fixed that but it kept the driver going now.) with testing primarily done in Division 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint with Surge 2 stepping in for VLK low-level API stability testing as well.

    G.

    Generally a temperature reading of at most 70 degrees in more demanding titles, usually around 60 degrees Celsius when the GPU isn't working at full capacity mostly meaning the way the GPU core clocks work is that it's scaling down a few hundred Mhz though bottlenecks like CPU or the driver issues can cause this too even having it drop to near min speeds (Ignoring the minimum clocks in Wattman whatever those actually do in current drivers.) and for D3D9 until resolved in 19.12.1 it could even hit the idle speeds of 6 - 30 Mhz which, wasn't good. :D


    EDIT: As to overclocking that is possible too but the default settings and caps come close to where it doesn't leave much additional headroom though the software for increasing these caps might allow for additional gains though probably nothing too significant but there is also the memory speeds which do give some additional yields if 910+ is doable without error correction kicking in and decreases performance. :)

    2200 Mhz core clock around 1.2v and 950 Mhz memory with a +50% power limit slider might be possible, triple fan cooler with a bigger heatsink or water for the added heat from the higher speeds to keep the 110 degree core junction threshold from lowering the clocks if that's hit.


    Software modding and +100 power limit and near 1.3v core voltage could be needed however since I expect above 2100 to see a bit of a wall for what it needs to be maintainable at least far as power requirements go.

    Probably applies also to 5700 XTX's or the 5700 XT 50th Anniversary which is binned although that blower cooler solution has to go as well as that's going to be a limit otherwise.
    (Well Navi10 XTX I think is how AMD called it.)



    EDIT: And for my own results well whenever I can build a more recent system I can redo it but for now a slight CPU bottleneck or something and working it into a undervolt instead without additional performance drops though there is a slight one from the GPU not hitting the 2 Ghz range of course.

    Not quite 1.0v core voltage but eh pretty close though going down to 1800 could be doable with a small dip in performance though overall the lower fan speed and how these ramp up and the temperature reduction is already very good for a first attempt and some fiddling.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  3. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @JonasBeckman
    Thanks for the insight on that. It was my intent to just leave things on default settings then this new driver comes out. Now, fan speed is lower then it was before and my temps are higher at default. I hope that gets fixed in another driver update. From what you suggested it's better to just leave things at default anyway. But now I have to tweak the fan curve. Odd too because with these new drivers, 2020, they don't seem to retain it's settings on reboot. I have to make the fan curve change every time I boot up.
     
  4. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Fans I'm trying to figure out but what I'm thinking is that it's not 100% working at least for non-reference GPU's so Sapphire for example while not zero RPM supported as such in the bios still runs at a very low fan speed (Like 20% or so.) up until the thermal target is reached.

    On a Pulse that's something like this.
    https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/212910/sapphire-rx5700xt-8192-190722-2

    Nitro's this.
    https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/213644/sapphire-rx5700xt-8192-190820-2

    (Small differences in the silent and normal bios but nothing too important for this mainly the power target as I remember and slightly lower settings for the secondary bios.)

    Also affected by software though but it'll do it's thing hit the "target" (Junction here, edge will be a bit lower by 10 - 15 degrees Celsius.) and then RAMP UP and back and forth because both the Pulse and Nitro kinda aggressively push the fan RPM and speeds up and then throttle it down a bit slower. :)

    Soft modding like the Igor Lab More Power tool and the issues after 19.7.2 where the fan settings can differ upwards of ~20% or so if not more or other problems also factor in but yeah in addition to ignoring the idle state so the GPU fan will just be operating per bios settings it might not be following the curve (steps really.) in New-Wattman much at all or it's possibly even more imprecise now.

    Hmm but maybe that's the problem as well it just defaults on boot you say, well there's certainly some work for the 2020 drivers whether it'll be one last 19.12.3 driver for the year (Would be nice but might cut to close to the holidays and such.) or the start of the 20.1.1 and next years driver releases fixing these up hopefully soon-ish.


    Just done a bit of testing but the GPU fan is definitively acting up a bit more, temps aren't a issue but the way Sapphire keeps a low fan speed and then just pushes a very high RPM and overall fan speed from that to push the temps back below the temp target which then also ramps the fan speed down and now it's above the target and the fan speed goes back to speed mode.

    There's a bit of noise as a result and even if it's stair steps and not proper curve the settings in Wattman could be used to at least reduce this behavior but it might need a driver fix or two first and whatever else 2020 might have affected.
    (I do prefer NVIDIA's method of a few features here and there not all out December every year and then some month or months of fixing these up or other issues from extensive changes or just leaving it.)


    EDIT: Idea or at least what I used was to use the target as the highest point in Wattman well a bit below the target so 80 - 85 junction and then the step/not-curves up to this had a slightly higher minimum speed (30%) and the resulting air flow and cooling meant the GPU generally never hit above 70 - 75 junction or ~60 degrees Celsius edge temperature though with some exceptionally demanding games or whatever went on in games like Outer Worlds almost hitting the threshold a bit over 100 junction at times.
    (So near 90 degrees edge temperature, good stress test that game although I never understood why it was playing at being the next Furmark. :p )

    Meaning the GPU never goes hyper speed mode and tries to full blast the target temp into submission and noise doesn't matter at all long as that's achieved apparently.

    Some fine tuning and balancing is possible to get the card working nice and quiet particularly utilizing under volt instead of overclock and the lowered thermals and possibility of a even lower fan speed but this worked for me until the driver situation and a hardware upgrade uncorked the bottlenecks and resolved issues.


    And then this happened. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  5. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @JonasBeckman
    I've cleaned out my case a bit and will try default again to see if things improve giving it a benefit of a doubt. But you are right, there is something up with default fan curve that was "just working" with the other drivers going back from October to end of November 2019 were it simply worked.

    It is nice to see both junction and edge temps now though. So to be fair with the old drivers I only had 1 temp to go on. But it was reliable enough to know things were stable at default.

    Hmm, is there a toggle for Zero fan curve with 2020 driver update? Yup, there is. This will take some getting use to. With Zero RPM enabled it does read 0 for fan speed. And I don't hear anything. Temps at desktop are 30C. As it should be. For me, fan noise isn't an issue with my case I want to make sure the card is cool.

    How the card ramps down has always been slow for me with the older drivers. I simply got use to it. Assuming it was making sure that temps were in line. No biggie for me. But it did this on default though. Fan speed would go up and down as needed. Sometimes I could hear the fan, other times I couldn't depending on temps. But with this driver I'm not hearing the fan at all and MW 2019 begin to freeze. So that immediately alerted me to the temps. I jumped into desktop 1st and in desktop it was over 70C!!! :confused:

    But lets see how things are running know with some winter case cleaning...
     
  6. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    19.7.2 changed something with how the fan behavior works too.

    https://www.igorslab.de/en/making-t...ly-quieter-with-the-morepowertool-tutorial/3/
    Navi also has the same thing where the fan curve are more like steppings.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e5zpqy/amd_fake_fan_curve/

    Though the settings can be tweaked and tuned or well could be until this driver affected them a bit further at least so with knowing about these issues it was possible to set up a fan "curve" (Ladder? :p ) that still could operate OK even if it wasn't perfect.

    Zero fan isn't quite supported by Pulse here but I did notice now that it's colder that if I air out the room and drop the temps to around 20 degrees for the GPU the fans just about stop and then they spin up again once it gets near the 30 degrees Celsius point, no real impact on anything but a interesting behavior for the GPU even with zero fan RPM missing from the bios so something else is affecting that.


    After Division 2 and due to how it behaved The Outer Worlds when that got released was what I used to test the card though I did hear from the AMD Reddit how Modern Warfare 2019 was pretty tough on AMD GPU's too, TOW in my case almost pushed into the threshold for junction temperature meaning 100 - 105 degrees and the fan(s) spinning up to 100% in response though the drivers at least had various problems with that game so I wonder if it's down to that more than anything and something was just off or a bit buggy for whatever the driver is doing for this game.
    (The LOD transition glitch while not critical in itself certainly hints at issues but then older drivers are just plain unstable with the game requiring 19.12.1 to resolve that issue in turn.)

    As for 19.12.2 well the fans are louder but the GPU itself is still cooled nicely even if it speeds up a bit more and uses the target temp to ramp up that fan speed although it's not like it's going up to a full 100% so noise is not as bad as it could be at least.
    Although the Pulse uses two different fan types and speeds and dimensions on these giving a slight vibration and resulting audible whirring or what to call it, Nitro using two bigger fans and a smaller center fan is doing a lot better with no additional sound disturbance when the fans are working at higher speeds.

    Bit of coil whine also, funnily enough just scrolling up and down on a website can impact this even without browser hardware acceleration enabled. (Though it should be fixed enough to where most browsers can now run with this enabled.)
    Also enhanced sync is still not 100% on the Navi GPU models and can be a problem for stability and seems to have on as a bit of a default setting. :)


    Well that's a bit of this and that, overall the drivers has improved the Navi GPU situation in newer releases up to 19.12.2 but there's still more work to be done and now these extras for all the things Adrenaline 2020 changed or added in a single driver release.



    EDIT: Well explanations and in-depth info isn't something I'm too good at and then trying to pick up what's new for the Navi GPU and RDNA and all sorts of stuff.

    Learning a bit though but still always more to figure out or well try to at least not that I expect to be able to learn anywhere close to everything.

    No stability issues so far at least so hopefully that's only going to be a few specific titles from here on and can be fixed with additional AMD display driver work as long as said games or applications affected by these isn't just in need of a patch or two.


    Overclocking itself seems to target a higher speed now when using the defaults or the automated toggles for undervolting or overclocking so it might be possible to get a bit extra out of the cards assuming that holds.
    (That and the way AMD is close to maxing out the GPU anyway so undervolting has a bit of headroom whereas additional overclocking might need some help via software to lift those limits a bit.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  7. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Gotcha!

    Well After a 2nd day the fan speed now ramps up in default like it use to. I am noticing this odd washed out screen every once in a while whenever I boot into win10 or win tabbing out of a game. Turning the monitor on and off removes it but it's as if you set brightness/contrast to max. Not sure why that's happening. I enabled custom color option to see if it stops.
     
  8. sirsergy

    sirsergy New Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I have MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT Evoke, and according to official specifications (https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Radeon-RX-5700-XT-EVOKE-OC/Specification) its TDP is 225 W. But in MorePowerTool I see TDP value is 200 W. Which one is correct?

    I wanted to know what is the max TDP after applying 20%-boost: is it 225 W * 20% or 200 W * 20%?

    Thanks for information in advance.
     
  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    The bios limit is 200 checking the bios files over on TechPowerUP so it should be 220 for a +20% increase. :)
    https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios...X+5700+XT&interface=&memType=&memSize=&since=

    EDIT: Bios differences seem to be a target temp of 75 degrees Celsius instead of 90 degrees and then instead of a target fan RPM of 2000 the target RPM is 1500 possibly the difference of a normal and silent type bios though without changing the power draw.
     
  10. sirsergy

    sirsergy New Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, it should be 200 W * 20% = 240 W, not 220W. Am I correct?
     

  11. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Yeah I did a 10% increase for some reason so that's correct, whoops. :)

    EDIT: Huh looking at the GPU bios database the Tachi actually has a 260 limit and a full 18 on the SOC instead of the usual 14 - 15 interesting though 180 - 200 with the power limit slider should be more than enough outside of maybe water cooling or having to modify the limits higher that the default caps.

    With 200 and a plus 50% that would put the limit to 300 which should hit 2050 Mhz as long as the GPU temperature is manageable.
    (2100 being the default cap and then boost generally stopping at 50 lower than the specified thus 2050)

    EDIT: RAM would be a interesting one though but other than SOC maybe maybe not having some effect (Probably not.) there's no way to adjust for it's voltage and the ECC catches most errors so it's mostly trial and error for where it either stops seeing a performance increase or breaks either crashing or showing display artifacts until lowered down.

    Still only a 2 - 3% gain though from 1750 to 1900 (875 - 950) if even that so core clock speeds are safer and can yield better results as long the core junction temp doesn't cause any throttling or other behaviors with the GPU and how it fluctuates a bit.

    EDIT: Which is around 3% with undervolting if the GPU is hitting any limits and throttling up to 7% or maybe a bit more if temps and higher power draw allows for hitting the near max of 2100 without soft power play table modding if that works at all with the current drivers. (Seems mixed.)

    Plus how the Wattman settings can either reset in full or in part from a reboot even without the fast boot "crash" behavior and resetting to default from that.
    (Or just lock values which might be a thing with voltage currently and thus the power draw and resulting temps if it's sticking to the 1.2v defaults.)


    EDIT: Also curious as to changes between D3D9 - D3D11 and D3D12 and Vulkan where the GPU seems to play nice and behave a bit better, fan speed for a immediate difference due to how it's been working since 19.7.2 and then a bit further after Adrenaline 2020 with 19.12.2 and on.
    (Almost seems the low level API's or rather the driver code here kinda respect the fan curve and Wattman settings better here oddly enough but not sure yet what's going on.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  12. sirsergy

    sirsergy New Member

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    I found out new info.

    According to https://www.igorslab.de/leistungsauf...et-igorslab/3/, 225W is TGP and 200W is BIOS TDP.

    On my GPU there are two power-connectors: 8-pin and 6-pin, these can provide up to 300W of power in total. So I suppose that after applying Power Limit boost the max TDP should be calculated as: (BIOS TDP * PL boost) + BIOS TDP + (TGP - BIOS TDP).

    For example, if Power Limit boost value is 35%, then TDP max is:

    (200W * 0,35) + 200W + (225W - 200W) = 295W

    Am I correct?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    I expect it to modify the bios value and how the card is allowed to draw from the setting here but perhaps it is using the total which might also explain why performance seems more drastically affected than it would normally be if it does combine with the SOC and others, interesting!

    Not too sure either since the power limit slider is a negative or positive up to either 20 or 50 percent depending on card model (5700 or 5700XT for example.) as defined in the bios but I don't think there's a definitively answer aside from perhaps monitoring via for example GPU-Z where it ends up at but that assumes the GPU can also boost up to and hit this new limit and that the GPU isn't hitting some of the occurring spikes or transient power draws where it peaks around 300+ watts even under less straining workloads.

    Good question though, bios setting is what would make sense to me as that's what the card targets and tries to reach or scale up to so that would then be increased or decreased but it could be the total overall too if the setting for this power limit in Wattman encompasses everything for how wattage is scaled.
     

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