480Hz Monitor Display Panel Prototype Spotted

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. The Goose

    The Goose Ancient Guru

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  2. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  3. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

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    It's likely monitors like these (and the 240Hz that is already out) are specifically targeted for CS:GO and other competitive titles where even the smallest edge matters. I for one, and others who are not part of that scene, am less interested in such high refresh rate, simply because I can't see any hardware configuration that could run something like the Witcher 3 maxed with hairworks at 480fps for years tom come. :)
     
  4. drac

    drac Ancient Guru

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    Yeah well, could be a while lol. We'l probably be on a totally different display tech by that time anyway.
     

  5. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Make G-Sync and FreeSync capable displays and you have a "future-proof" monitor.... Even for people like me that buy new hardware to play old games...lol

    Or they can make it variable refresh capable and you end up with a monitor supporting "up to 480hz"....
     
  6. mdrejhon

    mdrejhon Member Guru

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    Hello,

    Some of you know I work with some monitor manufacturers (I do overdrive tuning & strobe tuning for a few monitor manufacturers -- including some mainstream brands).

    Since I posted this article as the first mainstream website to publish 480Hz monitor tests -- I am going to be writing a Holiday 2018 follow on to my Holiday 2017 special, Blur Busters Law And The Amazing Journey To Future 1000Hz Monitors....

    So we shouldn't dismiss 1000Hz progress, because there are indeed human-visible benefits when Blur Busters Law means the motion blur is linearly proportional to frametime on sample-hold displays -- it's law of physics. As you can clearly see, it's nothing to sneeze at if it gets rid of needing to flicker to eliminate motion blur -- strobeless ULMB. Instead of 1ms backlight flashes per refresh cycle (1ms M.P.R.T. - Motion Picture Response Time) one simply fill the whole second with 1ms unique frames (with consistent smooth temporal displacement in all object movements) for exactly the same motion clarity. What VR scientists say are exactly correct about this topic, and fully applies to a full-quality and strobeless method of ULMB/"LightBoost". 1000Hz provides a method of a full-brightness lagless & blurless sample-and-hold -- FTW!

    ....In further experiments, I later found additional unanticipated very major benefits of 480Hz and (laboratory) 1000Hz displays that are not included in my Holiday 2017 article!!!! Some very surprisingly, and makes 1000Hz having more human visible benefits than I initially expected.

    Also, I earlier wrote about the GPU framerate amplification technology workaround where the use with experimental framerate amplification techniques (like a 100fps-to-1000fps version of Oculus Timewarp 45fps-to-90fps, with progressively fewer artifacts and without adding lag) as a shortcut around GPU limitations to be commerciallized by roughly year ~2025.

    FWIW, I expect 480Hz retail branded monitors by ~2020 (+/-1 year) and expect 1000Hz retail branded monitors by ~2025 (+/- 2 year). Understandably, right now 240Hz is the big thing now, still super expensive and not fully optimized much like the first 120Hz monitors were in 2009. Just like 4K was insanely priced 10 years ago, 480Hz will someday probably filter down to the cost of 144Hz in ten years, when the first 1000Hz comes out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    Fox2232 and fantaskarsef like this.
  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    @mdrejhon : You just threw wrench into my screen shopping plans. I did not expect 480Hz to come in next 5 years.
    Now I have to put plans for 3rd screen (~120Hz IPS for movies) on hold.

    Yet it is good to read that soon enough I'll have more fluid gaming and desktop experience. (I am pretty sure that one can see step from 240 to 480Hz as clearly as from 120/144 to 240Hz.)
     
  8. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Matching game FPS to monitor refresh rate NOT gonna be fun!

    That's the reason why 240hz panels are not mainstream yet, since there no strong need for it.

    People barely manage to get 144fps on highest end hardware for AAA titles. Yes, you can drop video settings to LOW and get around 200fps, till CPU hits a cap.
    But majority of people who can invest to buy best gaming monitor, won't care about "LOW" video settings, they want best.
    Only competitive players will be able to utilize 240hz+ panels for gaming (CS:GO, etc...).

    I am all for higher refresh rate for the same price, but with our current hardware, there no way of fully utilizing it.
     
  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    It's about frametime variance too. 100Hz screen with G/Freesync can display image every 10ms. If your system produces 100fps, but one frametime is 11ms and another 9ms, that 9ms frame will have to wait extra 1ms to be displayed. There are many problematic game engines with high frametimes fluctuation and higher refresh rate screen mitigates negative effect they have on user's experience. In some cases RTSS framerate limiter does the job at cost of reducing fps. But for some games you have to sacrifice like 30% of fps because they have big dips.
     
  10. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    These are like literally the only 2 games I can think off. No way anyone is getting those framerates on newer titles, if you're not playing those 2 FPS's, there's literally no point in going beyond 144Hz tbh.
     

  11. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Well I can pwnd them all @ quake champions with 144HZ display and fps avg around 80-120fps vsync'd, ultra settings and DSR'd 2880x1620p. Vs those who run at low/medium and 140-180fps+

    At least I enjoy all the eye candy it has to offer while doing it xD
     
  12. southamptonfc

    southamptonfc Ancient Guru

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    I remember a paper by one of Oculus designers where he said 800fps was needed for lifelike immersion in a VR headset. I guess these people know what they're talking about so perhaps 400hz in a desktop display could be good.
     
  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    I wonder how the game engines are going to handle something like 200+ FPS and frame pacing, it's already geared for 30 FPS or occasionally 60 so stabilizing it to 120 or 144 when it's uncapped and the resulting problems sounds problematic though I suppose third party programs is one solution and maybe when this tech is more mainstream and affordable there will be less problems with this.

    At least the practice to tie everything to a fixed framerate for counters or timers is less commonplace so it's improving a little, moving from 30 to 60 FPS though well that's going to be a challenge especially with 4k requiring pretty beefy hardware for native non checkerboard or other form of alternate means such as adaptive resolution. (That can't be fun for VR though NVIDIA and the tech they had for reducing detail on the corner areas for a performance boost might work without additional eye strain.)

    The info about 1000hz was interesting too but we're not even at 240hz yet although it's nice to see more progress even if it's years away from being available on the market.
     
  14. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    Just think how many of these they would sell if they added RGB!
     
  15. mdrejhon

    mdrejhon Member Guru

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    Mathematically, for full frame rate matching refresh rate, on a sample-and-hold display, these are the lowest possible persistence (MPRT) you can get:

    60Hz = 16.7ms persistence
    120Hz = 8.3ms persistence
    240Hz = 4.1ms persistence
    480Hz = 2ms persistence
    1000Hz = 1ms persistence

    The jump from 60Hz->120Hz reduces your MPRT by 8.3ms, and it requires a jump from 120Hz->1000Hz to reduce your MPRT by another huge 7.3ms. The law of diminishing returns means you need to jump from 60Hz->120Hz->1000Hz for roughly equally dramatic motion blur decreases. Jumping 120Hz->240Hz is not as dramatic as 60Hz->120Hz. That said, jumping 120Hz->1000Hz is numerically about as dramatic as jumping 60Hz->120Hz, from an absolute MPRT decrease perspective.

    Even 1ms MPRT is not the final frontier, there are still benefits to going even lower MPRTs, but it's extremely subtle. 1ms MPRT is still too blurry for TestUFO Panning Map Test at 3000 pixels/second. Try reading that even with ULMB, the text is already fuzzy even with ULMB! Now decrease "ULMB Pulse Width" setting in the OSD menus, and now you can read the text again when Pulse Width is less than about 50. (roughly ~0.5ms MPRT). This doesn't really show up in most games because things such as mouse microstutters and other weak links obscure the benefits of ultralow MPRTs.

    From a 120Hz perspective I wouldn't bother waiting. Much like most people won't wait for 8K today. 1000Hz display refresh rates for gaming monitors is currently further away into the future than 8K120Hz, but it is coming -- it's going to occur sooner in lifetime than many people think. However, it is not warranting waiting. The first 1000Hz monitors won't necessarily be fully optimized, much like the first 120Hz monitor in 2009 and the first 240Hz monitor in 2016.

    So.... Buy 144Hz (or 240Hz) today. Enjoy it today.
     

  16. W@w@Y

    W@w@Y Ancient Guru

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    And here I am struggling to "feel" the difference when I jumped from 60hz to 120hz
     
  17. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Just use 120hz for a week and go back to 60hz. You will notice something is not right and stutter will make you want to punch a monitor. Especially noticeable in First Person Shooting.
     
  18. W@w@Y

    W@w@Y Ancient Guru

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    I've Been using my 120Hz for about a year now (Alienware AW3418DW) but I just didn't get the "wow" effect in smoothness coming from a 60Hz Dell u2715h
    Maybe I should set to 60Hz then to see if I can feel the downgrade of 60hz
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    @mdrejhon : I already have 240Hz Alienware. And my BenQ 2420T 120Hz with "Z" firmware for 144Hz is a joke in comparison.

    Try to reduce refresh to 60Hz. I know few people who did not notice immediate difference in moving from 60 to 120Hz. But after some months they accidentally went back to 60Hz (driver or other way) and realized that something is wrong.

    Then again, it is 3440x1440 screen, so it is not like you drive it to 120Hz in every game. If most of games you play with eye candy land in 60~80fps range, G-Sync makes sure that you have same refresh rate. That means there is good chance that you experience 120Hz only on desktop. But even there it is noticeable in smoother window movement/animations.
     
  20. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Do high frequency monitors get really hot?
     

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