3DMark Firemark Scores Radeon Fury X surfaces - but are they real ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Typical, you mean stock which people no longer buy?
    All proper 3rd party cooling solutions are quite quiet.

    I can put my Accelero Xtreme on 100% speed and it is still very quiet. IIRC reference blower made same amount of noise when it run at 35%.
    Blower at 60%+ was noisy... no blowers, no problem.
     
  2. nexuno

    nexuno Master Guru

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    Noise is not that high on non-reference nither idle temp, and anyway you are exactly demonstrating what I was saying: AMD has a direct comptetitor which produces more heat and costs a little less, that's about it. I choose AMD some will choose NV ( I had to make this choice some week ago :) )
     
  3. Humanoid_1

    Humanoid_1 Master Guru

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    My MSI 290X Gaming sounds levels come in at:

    Idle : 37 dBA
    Load : 41 dBA
    source

    As the end user playing a game if a monitoring proggy like AfterBurner was not there to tell me so I would have no idea it was running at 94c under load...

    In most games I play at 1080p with VSync enabled it only runs at about 60% to 80% load and never gets near 94c, runs more in the 60 - 75c range (at low & quiet fan speeds)


    I'm very happy I bought it :)


    EDIT: I Will add that for unusually demanding situations I would have prefered to have bought one with a slightly bigger cooler and 3 fans like the Gigabyte Windforce or maybe the 2 fan Asus Direct CUII type 3 slot cooler.
    - the MSI Gaming cooler was smaller than I was expecting

    In particularly demanding situations it of course ramps up to 94c and does experience some minor thermal throttling even if it is not to the point of effecting the gaming experience to any significant degree

    Of course I could adjust the fan curves and cool the card more, but it's not been enough of an issue to bother yet...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  4. nexuno

    nexuno Master Guru

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    If it stays at 94° you shouldn't have any thermal throttling since it is designed for these temps. How do you know you run into thermal throttling? I play hours of GTA5 maxed @ 1080p @94° constant temp and the card is silk smooth.
     

  5. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    You can get adapters for H100 type coolers for GPU's now. NZXT i think. Thats what I was saying. It should also be movable to a new GPU later on.
    it doesn't have to be complicated anymore.
    Its better with a full block, but not obligatory, as long as the VRM's are well cooled.

    I could set my system to total silence if i wanted, but i'm all in for Max Cooling, thats why all the fans and pumps are running at 100%.

    I'm not saying it will cost $30, quite a bit more in fact.
    Its just that you seemed to be in search of silence and low temps primarily, and the best way to do that is WC.
    It can be done in aircooling, its just a hassle juggling the heat from the different components, if it isn't all being thrown out of the case properly.
     
  6. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    With my aircooled cards, i usually set the fan minimum to just when you can hear the fan above the system noise, turn it down to when you just can't hear it, and leave it at that.
    With the noise of the CPU and other fans, I could usually up the min fan speed to 50%+. lower idle remps, and the fan doesn't ramp, until it gets above a certain temperature, which takes longer since it is effectively being "overcooled" up to that temperature.
    I didn't see a reason to leave the min fan speed lower that just under audible.

    edit - not telling you what to do, thats just my 2c :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  7. Humanoid_1

    Humanoid_1 Master Guru

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    @nexuno

    tbh, I've not played any games for a while except to poke my nose into my Star Citizen hangar now and then.

    Just tried just now and I get a system lock up after about 15 secs of game so I cannot test. (am running an out of date Win 10 build atm and going to rebuild in the next day or 3)

    From memory, last summer when it was last hot, I seem to remember some minor throttling, from 1030MHz down to 950Mhz, probably at a point in the default fan profiles to prevent them becoming too noisy...

    Quite likely this kinda thing happens when the game enters a more visually stressful area and fans cannot compensate for increased heat fast enough, so it temp thermal throttles until temps steady out again.

    - an inevitable problem when running at Max allowable temp all the time without a buffer temp zone.


    @Evildead666

    I tend to like running my fans as low rpm as possible for a mix of quiet and fan longevity while not gaming as my system is more or less on 24/7.
    - had a fan get noisy vibrations on my last Asus 7950 Direct CUII TOP card after running f@h 24/7 for years

    (I no longer fold, to save cash while a bit poorer than I could be)

    Though I have thought about setting a higher standard gaming speed to try to keep temps under 90c


    All almost fairly much a moot point for me now as I am right now putting together my final watercooling custom loop components, more parts arriving tomorrow.

    All in readiness for the arrival of a watercooled Fury X ^^

    (but why 30k only this year, I hope that is wrong, probably won't be able to afford one at no doubt such exclusive high prices until next year :bawl: )
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  8. nexuno

    nexuno Master Guru

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    And actually, to add to the discussion, I decided to do some fact checking while reading the 980Ti latest review and I compared the benchmarks (which should apply to your definition "nearly every new title @ FHD/QHD") and the results are that:
    GTX970 wins in the witcher3, bioshock
    290x wins in thief, gta5, tombraider, battlefield HL, metroLL, hitman, 3dmark2013

    To be honest difference is minimal but is there.

    So in the end AMD has a perfect competitor (+bit better price, -hotter, +bit better performance), these are facts, the cards are equally competitive everything else is a matter of marketing in which NV is winning by far seeing how many followers it has in these forums :)
     
  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Idk, when I posted that I google searched 970 vs 290x. First result for GTA shows the 970 wining in both FHD/QHD.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...rked-across-14-nvidia-and-amd-graphics-cards/

    Same with Metro

    http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1365/13653712/2765508-0828508756-67884.png

    Same with BF4

    http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph8568/67897.png

    I mean I didn't check every website and chart and graph and make sure the stars were aligned but I think the point is that the 970 either ties or beats the 290x in most titles, but it's doing it at 145w vs 290w. Which if you use the card for 2 hours a day makes up the price difference in a year. And then like I said you get all the Nvidia features, like game streaming, PhysX, etc. I still think it's the better purchase, even if it's a tie or close.
     
  10. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Likely affected by driver:
    http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_980_ti_g1_gaming_soc_review,13.html
    Btw, I have advised few people to get gtx 970 over r9-290x. But don't take it wrong, I'll never consider PhysX/Gameworks as added value, it in long run hurts gaming industry as whole. And anyone who gets card for that hurts all and himself included without realizing.

    And if such person realizes, then it is selfish pr...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015

  11. nexuno

    nexuno Master Guru

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    I usually trust Guru3D :)
     
  12. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Seriously!? How the hell is it "selfish" to want a superior experience?

    It's like having a Ferrari and a Lamborgini, with the Ferrari slightly faster but more unreliable, and with the Lamborgini being more fuel efficient and giving you a card to get into exclusive Lamborgini sponsored parking and radio stations. Sure one might be slightly faster, but the other is a much better overall experience.

    How about you call out AMD for not investing enough resources into supporting its products? Nothing is stopping AMD from working with devs to get it's own optimized solution, TressFX, into the game as well. They just don't care to invest the resources into doing so and thus would rather settle for an inferior "default" experience.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  13. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Is there some kind of patent or something preventing AMD from developing their own gpu physx? Didn`t they develop Bullet physics or something? What happened to that?
     
  14. Andrew LB

    Andrew LB Maha Guru

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    Blame AMD for that, not the retailer. A retailer is only going to give a product so much advertising space in a weekly mailer because it's expensive. Lowering prices would help encourage more ad space, and putting tighter restrictions on accceptable product pricing make them more profitable to offset ad space cost.

    People seem to think that once the product gets into the hands of a retailer, that they have free reign to sell it at whatever price they want above wholesale. Authorized retailers have contractual agreements with the manufacturer which prevents them from undercutting their other customers by low-balling prices. While I do agree that retailers have some flexability in where they can price things, they are typically prevented from selling low all the time with the hopes of making up the small margins with volume.
     
  15. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Besides a few patents that would probably make their implementation a little bit more difficult, they have a big problem: Money

    Nvidia spent (according to industry rumors) around a $150 Million USD to acquire AEGIA (the makers of PhysX) back in 2008. That includes a working product, experienced crew, patents, etc. It's probably spent millions more updating the PhysX software and working with game developers to implement it. AMD doesn't obviously care to spend this much money and resources for this experience. As a 2nd mover, AMD will be late to the party. It has no experience in developing such software, much less implementing it, supporting it, and then hoping the market will notice it.
     

  16. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    Yeah.
    The latest game I can find that uses the Bullet software (Free and open Source btw) was an old one called GTA 5 :).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_%28software%29
     
  17. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Touche.

    However, it is nowhere near as complete for game developers to take advantage of as PhysX is, it's much slower as well.

    Just take a look at the difference in game support, the only major title on Bullet's list is the GTA/Red Dead series. Now compare it to PhysX major titles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support
    http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/physx/games

    I rest my case.
     
  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Used in Blender for hundred times more real physical simulation than particle squirting engine called PhysX does. (It did have really good collision part from start, but you do not see that much at all in PhysX games now.)

    If you remember nearly 10 years old Cellfactor then you know we do not get such physics now, but we get air full of clutter, leaves, ... And they are not acting realistically, they are acting as needed to have effect of clutter around character, or to create illusion that character is kind of airbender.
     
  19. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    It may not be the best choice for Physics simulation, but that still doesn't mean that there is only Nvidia and PhysX left.
    Havok Physics is by a large margin the N°1 in the simulated physics for games.
    Intel owns it now.

    Don't get me wrong, I had a card put aside for Hybrid PhysX (even had it working on previous rig), best of both worlds to me and others, but Nvidia shut that door.
     
  20. Demrock

    Demrock Member

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    Regarding the price in europe i give a big middlefinger.

    if true then a 390x goes for 500/550 euro...
    a rebrand of a 290x while the older gpu cost 350 euro.

    I think Fury will cost around 700 / 800 euro here...

    so yeah they can stickit where the light doesnt shine.
     

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