3800X minimum / maximum processor state and v core

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by IchimA, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    Ok, me stupid ... but can someone explain something to me !?
    I use Ryzen Balanced Power Plan ! Can I set " Minimum proc state " to 50% ? What does this mean !? That the Cool and Quiet will not go bellow 1.95 Ghz ?
    Also I think that " Maximum proc state " should be 100% ... thing is if I set it to 95 - 99 % ... in ryzen master the Average and Peak drops from 1.4v to 1.2v ... should I keep it this way ? Is it ok for Ryzen to be undervolted ?
    Should I use Ulimate power plan !?
    I should mention I don't overclock or anything ... What the 3800x offers is enough for me ... PBO enabled in BIOS and that is it.

    P.S. Cpu-z says core speed 4200 - 4300 while RyzenMaster - 1800-2000 - 3800 mhz
    what program should I trust ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  2. gerardfraser

    gerardfraser Ancient Guru

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    AMD CPU algorithm changes to keep the electrical, thermal, and/or utilization headroom under control and within safe parameters and will last for a long time out of the box.

    If you do not overclock and only have PBO on which could mean a couple different things.Just let the CPU work and use a power plan you want.

    Light loads/idle/single thread will be up to CPU 1.50v depending on power plan and BIOS and can go as high CPU 1.55v although I seen higher with certain BIOS version,to keep the electrical, thermal, and/or utilization headroom and within safe parameters.
    Under heavy loads the AMD CPU will drop voltages and CPU clocks to keep the electrical, thermal, and/or utilization headroom and within safe parameters.

    AMD Ryzen CPU's are smart ,I would suggest not to under volt AMD Ryzen because you get less performance and clock stretching.

    Do not change parameters in power plan and test to see what is best for you.If you game test gaming ,if you encode video test encode video.You may find there is little to no difference in most things.
    Also there are all kinds of good power plans that people make on the internet,try one of them.
     
  3. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    Thank, can you tell me if PBO will get the CPU from 3.9 to 4.5 ? or is PBO only for 200Mhz Offset !?
    Should I overclock in BIOS or in RyzenMaster on manual for 4.2-4.3 ... as I have said I am more then happy with the performance it offers out of the box !
     
  4. gerardfraser

    gerardfraser Ancient Guru

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    Well it depends on what load you run with PBO and how you set it up and if you use any enhanced/override modes.
    No need to overclock CPU at all,like you said it runs good out of the box,but if you just want higher CPU clocks you can use the BIOS tweak /bug and get extra performance.

    Your BIOS will be a little different ,if you want to try tweak and always do at your own risk ,here are results of BIOS tweak compared to default

    Default BIOS setting @60 FPS Cap- CPU Frequency Range 4350Mhz - 4425Mhz - Avg 4400Mhz
    BIOS boost EDC set to 1A @60 FPS Cap- CPU Frequency Range 4475Mhz - 4550Mhz - Avg 4525Mhz
    BIOS boost EDC set to 10A @60 FPS Cap- CPU Frequency Range 4500Mhz - 4575Mhz - Avg 4525Mhz
    BIOS boost EDC set to 1A @120 FPS Cap- CPU Frequency Range 4450Mhz - 4525Mhz - Avg 4475Mhz



    PBO settings-not AMD overclocking section changing EDC Amp 1A-10A
    [​IMG]CPUConfig by gerard fraser, on Flickr

    Voltages CPU/DRAM/SOC adjust coltage setting for best performance

    BIOS tweak can do 4400Mhz+ Cinebench20 all cores,this is with BIOS tweak and BCLK clocking and CPU offset voltage
     

  5. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    If you are on Win10 then probably you can see events with Id 55 and source 'Kernel-Processor-Power' in System log (in Event Viewer):

    Code:
    Processor 0 in group 0 exposes the following power management capabilities:
    Idle state type: ACPI Idle (C) States (3 state(s))
    Performance state type: ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
    Nominal Frequency (MHz): 3401
    Maximum performance percentage: 100
    Minimum performance percentage: 35
    Minimum throttle percentage: 4
    
    with XML
    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
    <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
      <System>
        <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Processor-Power" Guid="{0f67e49f-fe51-4e9f-b490-6f2948cc6027}" />
        <EventID>55</EventID>
        <Version>0</Version>
        <Level>4</Level>
        <Task>47</Task>
        <Opcode>0</Opcode>
        <OpcodeName xmlns="">Info</OpcodeName>
        <Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
        <TimeCreated SystemTime="2020-02-12T05:39:56.476168100Z" />
        <EventRecordID>45447</EventRecordID>
        <Correlation />
        <Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="432" />
        <Channel>System</Channel>
        <Computer>DESKTOP-QQQQQQ</Computer>
        <Security UserID="S-12-55-18" />
      </System>
      <EventData>
        <Data Name="Group">0</Data>
        <Data Name="Number">0</Data>
        <Data Name="IdleStateCount">3</Data>
        <Data Name="IdleImplementation">1</Data>
        <Data Name="NominalFrequency">3401</Data>
        <Data Name="MaximumPerformancePercent">100</Data>
        <Data Name="MinimumPerformancePercent">35</Data>
        <Data Name="MinimumThrottlePercent">4</Data>
        <Data Name="PerformanceImplementation">1</Data>
      </EventData>
    </Event>
    
    Also you can use utility pwrtest.exe (from Windows SDK) - http://www.mediafire.com/file/drkkxqeiyiafafq/pwrtest.zip/file
    Execute in elevated command prompt:
    Code:
    pwrtest.exe /info:ppm
    (version from 'amd64' subfolder) and it will print such text
    Code:
    InstanceName: ACPI\GenuineIntel_-_Intel64_Family_6_Model_62_-________Intel(R)_Core(TM)_i7-4930K_CPU_@_3.40GHz\_0_0
    Processor Performance States
      PerfStates:
        Max Transition Latency:  10 us
        Number of States:        31
        State  Speed (Mhz)    Type
        -----  ------------   ----
          0     3401 (100%)   Performance
          1     3400 ( 99%)   Performance
          2     3200 ( 94%)   Performance
          3     3100 ( 91%)   Performance
          4     2900 ( 85%)   Performance
          5     2800 ( 82%)   Performance
          6     2600 ( 76%)   Performance
          7     2500 ( 73%)   Performance
          8     2300 ( 67%)   Performance
          9     2100 ( 61%)   Performance
          10    2000 ( 58%)   Performance
          11    1800 ( 52%)   Performance
          12    1700 ( 49%)   Performance
          13    1500 ( 44%)   Performance
          14    1400 ( 41%)   Performance
          15    1200 ( 35%)   Performance
          16    1200 ( 35%)   Throttle
          17    1128 ( 33%)   Throttle
          18    1056 ( 31%)   Throttle
          19     984 ( 28%)   Throttle
          20     900 ( 26%)   Throttle
          21     828 ( 24%)   Throttle
          22     756 ( 22%)   Throttle
          23     684 ( 20%)   Throttle
          24     600 ( 17%)   Throttle
          25     528 ( 15%)   Throttle
          26     456 ( 13%)   Throttle
          27     384 ( 11%)   Throttle
          28     300 (  8%)   Throttle
          29     228 (  6%)   Throttle
          30     156 (  4%)   Throttle
    
    for each core.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  6. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

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    Your ASUS X570 Gaming-E should have similar bios options to my X470 Gaming-F. This is how I run my rig:
    • PBO set to 3(oc)
    • Under CBS section: PBO set to Advanced with clock boost set to 200
    • CPU voltage left on Auto
    • SOC voltage set with offset of -0.03125
    My 3800X's core clocks range anywhere from 4.375GHz to 4.575GHz depending on game. Vcore never hits 1.5000 when CPU voltage is left on auto but does hit 1.500 once negative offsets are used. Have no experience with the X570 boards so no clue how the voltage works out for your particular board.

    EDIT: I also use the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan and leave the minimum and maximum cpu performance settings as is.
     
  7. dsbig

    dsbig Ancient Guru

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    any difference between ryzen high performance and windows 10 workstation ultimate performance?
     
  8. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    4575MHz is above spec so that should be considered a success. I've not touched BIOS but I'm anxious to see what my new mobo (X570 Aorus Elite) can do. So far I'm hovering around 4400-4450 MHz.
     
  9. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @IchimA

    Do your CPU and OS actually respect these limits - minimum and maximum processor states - in power plans?
    I am asking because after I moved to new rig which implements version 2 of the CPPC interface (hardware P-states), I see that those two settings in power plans are totally ignored.
    (Also events and pwrtest I mentioned earlier stopped to show info on P-states supported by CPU.)

    Update: I found here https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-speed-shift-technology-mia.2463727/page-3 a quote of the author of the Throttlestop app:
    I understand that this was about Intel CPUs, but CPPC interface is not about Intel. So may be Win10 behaves the same when it discovers capable CPU and UEFI with enabled CPPC v.2 interface.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  10. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    @mbk1969 for minimum processor state I can't say ! but for maximum - yes it does . If I put it at 90% it will not go above 4000Mhz
    At the ppl who get 4300 clocks ! Did you disabled cool and quiet ... CPS in BIOS ? my proc runs from 1200 to 4250 Mhz ... something like that. I should mention I have not run any single benchmark .... As stated I am for now happy with it. Just curios if disabeling C&Q will have less hickups in RDR2 or in any other game , for example higher min fps
    EDIT : Also , for now I have a CM seidon V2 120 Cooler ... I want to get some 240 in summer as right now I hit 70 - 72 degres while gaming
     

  11. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    Ya, definitely is my cooler ! Just tried AIDA64 ... max all core boost with 4020 Mhz and temp is at 84

    https://imgur.com/a/4CXwEDt
     
  12. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  13. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Yes, I have Cool n Quiet enabled but my CPU doesn't clock down to 1200 like you described. It jumps between 3975-4500 in Windows using the AMD Balanced Power Plan.

    I've tried a Corsair H100i RGB Platinum White SE (240mm) but it wasn't very good and I think my Dark Rock 4 Pro performs better and is much quieter. I've not done any serious testing but when I did a small stress test in CPU-z I got max 71C @ 4200MHz. I'll try Aida64 since it's tougher on the CPU than CPU-z
     
  14. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    In RdR2 on my end it fluctuates from 2600 Mhz to 3800 Mhz on all cores. Sometimes 4200 ... with BIOS setting on Auto ... PBO - auto ( no level ) ... increase Mhz - auto ( I have not set it to 200Mhz ) . Amd Overclock auto ... and I have 60 - 64 degrees

    EDIT: Leaving everything on AUTO in BIOS ... but changing the CPU multiplier from Auto to 42.75 ... got me an all core of 4275 with AIDA64 running for 10 minutes. But the temp is now in red area ( 90 - 91 ) !!! I really need a good cooler
    EDIT 2: Back again in BIOS... set multiplier to AUTO , run'ed AIDA64 ... boosting to 4030 Mhz ... Back in BIOS , set multiplier to 43.50 , AIDA64 and Ryzen Master now show 4350 Mhz .. temp at 93 degrees .
    Tomorrow I test multiplier 45 need to sleep now .
    EDIT 3 : No sleep for the weak ... 44.75 ... 44.50 ... BSOD
    44.25 Run'ed AIDA for 3 seconds then thermal threshold kicked in and pofff ... black magic ... reset ... back to a safe 43.00 for NOW
    But I have another problem .... peak core voltage is locked now at 1.09 V no matter what I set in BIOS
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  15. Mundosold

    Mundosold Member Guru

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    You are doing very dangerous things to your cpu. Don't ever set a ratio without setting voltage too. Auto will overvolt it. People have killed their CPUs doing exactly what you are doing, setting a manual OC but not setting a voltage.
    Worth noting that the opposite, setting a voltage but not setting a ratio, is fine as long as voltage isn't too high. It will not enter manual OC mode and instead it will automatically run at the safest frequencies it can for the voltage entered.

    When you set a ratio with Ryzen, you switch the chip to "Manual OC" mode. This mode disables all internal protections, throttling, and current limits except for thermal shutdown. Combine that with "auto" on voltage and it will pick a very high voltage (I believe the bios vendor is what sets that). Anything over 1.30v and the dangers of degrading or outright killing your chip go up, especially if you run an AVX load with these voltages, like Cb20 or Prime95.

    For your voltage problem, try clearing CMOS.
     

  16. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    Thanks for explaining ... I understand better now .
    I will use Ryzen Master , game mode ... manual OC ... just for testing .... as stated before I am happy with it on AUTO , now I just want to see if I remember how to OC ... looks like not :))
     
  17. IchimA

    IchimA Maha Guru

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    Something is stuck here ... Now my V core Voltage in Ryzen master is 1.45v - 1.47v ( to high)
    In BIOS is set on Auto ... still using Ryzen Balanced power plan ... Max processor state at 100% ... if I drop it down to 99% I get Average core voltage - 1.12v ... should I keep it this way ? ... it got colder by 5 degrees.
    P.s. already tried reseting the BIOS ... think it's a windows issue now.

    P.s. these v core are when IDLE
    If I run AIDA ... full stress test it drops to 1.30v ... I don't understand this at all
     
  18. liviut

    liviut Member Guru

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    it's normal for ryzen what you see it is for a fraction not whole cores it's fine that's the boost voltage
     
  19. Mundosold

    Mundosold Member Guru

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    Normal behavior. Boost voltages will be high so that it can obtain the highest clock possible with your chip. It is very brief and only when it determines it is safe to do so (Ryzen literally changes voltages on its cores up to 1000 times per second). During heavy load/stress test, it drops to whatever is safe for the load it is facing and takes into account thermals and current. If you run Prime95 smallFFT, you'll see it drop even further to to 1.10v-1.20v because it is a higher load stress test and 1.30v is then unsafe.
    Basically Ryzen is designed to try to maximize the performance you get in all scenarios automatically. If you give it a better cooler, since it takes thermals into account it can boost higher too. This is why overclocking generally isn't a good idea with Ryzen 3000, there isn't much performance left on the table.

    As for your question, I prefer to keep C-states enabled (may be Called "Global C-State Control") and usually set Minimum processor to like 60%. Let's it idle at a low clock rate, and when it idles voltages can go down as low as 0.2v.
     
  20. gerardfraser

    gerardfraser Ancient Guru

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    You could read post #2 in this thread.
     

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