360 Vs. PC

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Ryman03, Nov 12, 2005.

?

Which system do you prefer in terms of graphics and gameplay?

  1. CPU

    81.9%
  2. 360

    6.9%
  3. I still play Atari!

    1.7%
  4. I don't care, and in this case I shouldn't be voting.

    9.5%
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  1. JamesDax

    JamesDax Master Guru

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    4th and 5th reviews are in. 1up gives CoD2 a 9.0 while GamePro gives it a 5 out of 5. Here's a quote from GamePro:

    The game is looking mighty fine. I'm currently playing it on my PC but looks like I'll be getting for the 360 as well.
     
  2. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    if you ask me...... any FPS that is on both a console and PC, i'd much rather get the PC version. can't stand aiming with control sticks. nowhere near sensitive enough. It's kinda funny though...... you can kinda tell that some of the stuff in the PC version is still tweaked down to suit the Xbox 360, like the scoped view, it moves slower even if you have a slightly high mouse sensitivity. granted it's nice.... but it's not necessarily needed.
     
  3. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    honestly, COD2 is NOT a good comparison.

    you're talking about a game that was REALLY poorly ported to pc.

    think about it, the maxxed out screenshots look no better than battlefield 1942.

    the game looks years behind doom3/battlefield2/hl2, etc.
    textures : washed out
    polygons : chunks all over
    and it runs worse than any recent flashy pc game.

    think about it, is COD2 REALLY better looking than cronicles of riddick? wtf does it run slower? its just a crappy port.

    reasons?

    consider that the xbox has 3 cores... if they wrote the game _soecifically_to_use_3_cores_, then changing that to a single core machine would require a buttload of work.


    i'm a programmer, and i work with multiprocessing systems.
    seriously, you take any 2 pieces of parallel code that are made to run at the same time, like one thread sends, other thread receives, if you then try to run them on 1 cpu, you're gonna get one sending, and no one executing that can receive. the program will sit waiting for the other thread to get control, receive a bit, control returns to 1st thread, repeat. and what if you don't have a buffer big enough to hold an entire message? you gotta toggle over and over. you can make a 10 megabyte IN MEMORY transfer take 10 minutes (instead of an instant) if you f up something like that.
    the same sort of stupid crap can happen if you go from serial to parallel code.

    *something* in COD2 is choking on the pc version.
    there is _nothing_ in there that screams "high power needed". the game looks a few years old.

    any number of causes for a crap port.

    1) rush job
    2) out of budget
    3) strict timeline
    4) pc-game-coding-inexperienced console programmer had the task assigned
    5) over-optimization for 1st architecture. unable to re-optimize without a ground up re-write
    6) milti vs serial programming pitfalls
    6a) unable to debug the bottlenecks/port-problems before #2, #3 happened


    -scheherazade
     
  4. JamesDax

    JamesDax Master Guru

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    Hmmm... first there is no way the XBox 360 version looks as good as the PC version. And now the PC version is a crappy port of the XBox 360 version. :rolleyes:
     

  5. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    yep. what James said. PC version a crappy port of the Xbox 360 version? uuh...... WRONG! you think that a game manufacturer would actually make a game for a console that isn't released yet, then port it over to PC, not knowing what it'd turn out like? if so...... i wonder what that company is smoking. read the article in the following link. it should shut quite a few of you people up.

    http://thetechnologist.blogspot.com/2005/10/xbox-360-early-reviewhands-on.html

    for those who don't feel like reading it:
     
  6. keikdasneek

    keikdasneek Guest

    OK then what game on pc looks like Perfect Dark Zero on 360??? NONE!! how about sports madden 360?? NONE! How about Gears of War ??? what about for racing games ?? Project Gotham Racing on 360 what compares to that on pc?? NONE Now you be the judge.. lol
     
  7. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    pc version uses a modified quake3 engine.

    donno if the xbox version uses it too.

    as far as i can find, both pc and 360 versions of COD2 were done in parallel.

    the 360 version can't come out till 360 is out... so it's obviously released later. this shouldn't be confused with the pc version being ported to 360 (just because the pc was on shelves first).

    also consider the politics of the situation. if the publisher is trying to hype the console, they don't want any effort put into making the pc version fast. the slower the pc version, the better the console will hype.
    i doubt the publisher would TRY to make the pc version slow, but they probably just didnt give any money to the devs for tweaking it. "just get something out there for PC, it'll be good enough".

    believe me, in the software industry, any program that isn't your main money maker is gonna be neglected. managers don't schedule as much developer time to it. some bugs are ignored. poor performance doesn't make anyone sweat.

    it's not some conspiracy, it's just priorities.

    since the console market is where the $ is at, they probably wrote the console code and kept an automated build box up that compiled a windows version of it every night.

    a few plebes were left to the task of patching up any windows needed features into the program.

    edit : if you don't believe this is how things are done in the indistry, you're in fantasy land. most companies aren't some samurai honor stuffed lot. the typical mantra is "just get something working, then worry about making it better _if_we_have_to_". the P.R. people take care of spinning the product into something you'd like (or expect) it to be.

    the engines could be different since the majority of the work is in common/shared game-related code, not in graphical subsystems.

    if the same engine was used, then it's probably been modified to run best on 360 (since that's where the $ is at).

    if they debugged most of it on the console environment, they wouldn't have seen much of the pc version till the time came to wrap it up and ship it.


    graphics wise, it's pretty ez to explain.

    console : less memory + inability to upgrade.

    artists make texture A, this is the master texture.
    they put the texture into the pc version data files.
    they cut the texture in half, and put that into the console version data files.

    the console isn't terribly powerful.
    (no matter what the hype, face it, no one is giving out uber hardware for free. a few game sales of profit isn't gonna cover the cost of uber hardware. it's really not that fast.)
    they make sure they leave the rez and polycount at something the console can handle. possibly, optimizing for the worst-case scenario (the slow parts of the game are made to be at least some fps, so the fast parts are then super smoothe) and leave the rest of the time looking sorta plain.

    the pc version can be loaded onto tougher systems, so things like LOD bias and particle/flare(i.e. random nifty crap objects) density can be configuration settings, rather than hard coded. better systems can turn the stuff up.

    end result is, the pc version has better looking graphics.
    but really, no more work is put into making it that way.





    anyways, BOTTOM LINE

    COD2 = on pc, looks like a really old pc game, and runs like crap too.

    why?

    no graphical reason.

    what else could do it?

    ****ty worksmanship
    or more likely
    neglect (since it's supposed to be one of the 360's BIG THINGS)




    -scheherazade



    p.s.
    yet another reason why the pc version might be slow


    I should also add :
    the 360 has a very specific graphics adapter.
    if :
    1) the same game engine was used for both PC and 360
    2) 360 was the priority (hence engine optimized for 360's hardware)
    3) porting basically consisted of making sure it compiles for both systems as teh development cycle moves along.

    then :
    the pc version *probably* has some video card routines that REALLY don't make sense on our non-360 video hardware.

    this is partially backed up by benchmarks.
    you can see CPU hardly matters. video cards are the choking point.

    if the video is choking, and the screen isn't showing anything smazingly spectacular, then there is something under the hood that is simply wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2005
  8. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    go ahead buddy..... laugh it off. you're only laughing at yourself. is Perfect Dark Zero out yet??? NO!! is Madden 360 out yet?? NO! is Gears of War out yet??? NO!!!! is PGR 360 out yet??? NO!!!

    you're trying to compare games that aren't out yet to games that are. that's like me saying to you "What Xbox 360 games compare to the Unreal Tournament 2007?" probably none when it comes out. i'm guessing you're probably looking at the screens and stuff they have for say..... Gears of War... on the Xbox 360 site. if so...... you're more of an idiot than i thought. those are RENDERED images. until i see screens of first person nature with a gun and a HUD, i don't wanna hear it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2005
  9. keikdasneek

    keikdasneek Guest

    Actually hahahaAHAH but yes they are! i have madden 360 all those games here i just picked up, so uhh YES THEY ARE OUT AND THEY ARE FINISHED. The only game that i did not pick up which is comin next month is gears of war. So uhh im laughing at nothin but me playing these games in 5 more days on my hdtv.. :)

    oh yeah in unreal 2007 is coming to the 360 as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2005
  10. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    oh.... so now you're bragging about owning a couple games for a console you don't own yet, and don't even know if you'll own when it's released?
     

  11. Red~Mage

    Red~Mage Master Guru

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    So it was designed for the X360.

    Well, that certainly explains a lot. (I figured it was, since cross-platforms almost never start out on PC)
     
  12. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    Red~Mage: where did either of us say that CoD2 "was designed for Xbox 360"? we didn't. it could have been designed for either console.... but many people say that either way, it looks better on PC. and what do you mean cross platforms don't usually start out on PC? i can already think of two right off the top of my head, and they're recent. Half-Life 2, and The Sims. i'm sure there are quite a few others, but those are the only two i can think of right now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2005
  13. keikdasneek

    keikdasneek Guest

    I get mine @ 12:00 AM on the 22nd so uhh yes i will have one :) good luck playing counter strike and wow lol
     
  14. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    no one said it.

    i said that COD2 is a bad example for comparing PC and 360.

    because it looks old and runs slow.

    no graphical reason for it to slog through rendering its' scenes.

    meaning it's *probably* a porting/optimization issue.

    edit :

    a bad port means bias... hence bad choice for making a comparison.

    most likely a bad port -> most likely a bad comparison



    also, this doesn't mean it's a 360-optimization issue either.
    it could just be a lack-of-optimization for pc. there are a bunch of versions of this game, for consoles.
    the pc sales will be miniscule compared to all the rest. it's not unimaginable to say the pc version was a low priority.

    -scheherazade
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2005
  15. BlueDragonXP

    BlueDragonXP Guest

    yeah man thats why im getting a PS3 cuz it has better games too... duh!
     

  16. BlueDragonXP

    BlueDragonXP Guest

    and people stop talking about that old ass COD2 demo at eb games cuz that looks nothing like the finished version of the game.

    COD2 looks better on the Xbox360 then on the PC.
     
  17. Gromuhl'Djun

    Gromuhl'Djun Ancient Guru

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    Talk about crappy porting then, because COD2 is running in direct3d on the pc.......An OpenGL engine made to run in Direct3d is asking for trouble!
     
  18. MattTS

    MattTS Member Guru

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    CoD 2 likely uses a new engine made from scratch. Why would they use such an old engine and modify it so heavily to add surround sound, directx instead of OpenGL, new shaders etc when they could code a new engine which would probably be easier/better in the long run?

    People should really stop arguing about CoD 2 on PC and Xbox 360. The chances are it looks exactly the same on the 360 as it does on the PC when the settings are at max with 4x or 2x AA and at 1280x720.

    The PC version can look better (but not really that much) when they can apply better AA, AF and run at a higher resolution.

    I think the xbox 360 is worth getting for any exclusive games that'll be good. Same for PC and perhaps PS3. It's about gameplay not just graphics.

    I suspect (and hope) that USB keyboards and mice might be able to be used with the 360 which will make FPS games much more playable.
     
  19. eduardmc

    eduardmc Maha Guru

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    it make me laugh how ignorant people are, first COD 2 wasn't gonna look like the pc version at all (people stated that it had crappy texture, bad frame rate, and no dynamic lighing). now that all reviews (about 7 reviews) stated that COD 2 on xbox 360 look exactly like the pc version with same texture quality and all lighing, PLUS MUCH SMOOTHER FRAME RATE, while pc version is chucking in some areas, the xbox version plays it smooth has butter. people are looking to other things to complain. riddick was an xbox game, and it was ported to pc. everybody started comparing how pc is so much powerful to xbox. now that they ported COD2 from pc to xbox 360 now why are people still complaining.

    remember, COD 2 is on the launch title, so this game was ported to a system that just came out, companies are still learning how to program for this new consoles. pc have been out for ages, so programers can program a game in no time.
     
  20. Gromuhl'Djun

    Gromuhl'Djun Ancient Guru

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    C'mon! Quoted for untruth:p
     
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