27" pls, 29" ips or 120hz 1080p?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Enmity, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Enmity

    Enmity Maha Guru

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    This, I wholeheartedly agree with Yasa on this man. The pros FAR outweigh the cons when it comes to these Korean monitors. And this is coming from someone who waited what? 3-4 weeks to get my monitor up and running due to it turning up cableless. I'm immensely happy with my Qnix, so much so I may need to change my underwear every time I game.

    y'all know what I mean? ;) yeeaaah I know you do.

    Yasa, when you get your monitor i'll be following you coz dude, you're pretty damn clued up aye and since you're running dual 7970's like me im almost betting you'll find a way to fix the green videos lol.
     
  2. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    1 - I've seen too many reviews of every ebay seller stating they paid for a pixel perfect monitor and got multiple dead pixels. I can't tolerate that.

    2 - In order to use my consoles on it I'd have to pay extra for one with multiple inputs which means it has a scaler. That's input lag right there and no reviewer has the specs on how much it would be. Such a monitor would cost around $500 anyway for a "perfect pixel" version and it's be an "A-" panel at best. I don't plan on buying a separate TV or monitor just to use consoles.

    Dell's warranty ensures I get a perfect one eventually and I find the monitor to be excellent. It shouldn't be hard to get one without stuck pixels and crosshatching. I had to go through 4 monitors before to get a good one, I can wait. I want a perfect panel and nothing less, Dell's the only way to 100% guarantee that.

    My biggest beef with the ultrasharp series was the insane grain/crystal effect. This monitor doesn't have that and so it actually lives up to the ultrasharp name. It's the best looking monitor I've seen and I've seen 1440p ones before. It's actually nice being able to have my lights on.

    Even if I could get a pixel perfect Korean panel I'd still rather have the U2713HM now that I've seen it just to ensure if anything ever goes wrong I can get a replacement. Dell even offer repairs after their warranties expire.
     
  3. Enmity

    Enmity Maha Guru

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    Fair enough bro and each to their own, what matters is that you are happy with your decision and it meets your needs. Needing it to work with a console truly does make these korean monitors less of an option due to most being dl dvi only, and if not, they skip frames when overclocked so in your particular circumstance the dell looks to be your best bet despite the cost :) hope ur replacement arrives soon man and its perfect!
     
  4. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I forgot to mention how it is in high speed/precision gaming. Testing it in fighting games with combos with 2 and 1 frame timings... it's definitely a noticeable difference but it's fine. It's already such a monumental pain in the ass timing something precisely down to the frame that getting used to slightly different timings makes almost no difference. I should note that stretching a 720p game to 1440p definitely looks worse than it does being stretched to 1080p, but of course I expected that.

    Another thing I should note is that like every other Dell monitor I've ever seen it has what appears to be bleeding in the corners, but on this one it's very minimal, much less than the four U2312HMs I had and a fraction of what the two U2740Ls have. I don't think the bleeding gets any less than this.

    Do all IPS panels have corner bleeding to a certain extent or is it just the Dell monitors?

    As for the replacement I'm getting, there is a high chance it will be a new revision because there is a high chance they're producing a new batch to ship rather than sending me one that was previous produced. At least that's what I got out of the conversation I had with the manager.
     

  5. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    I have alittle backlight bleed on the top right, you can only notice it when the room is very dark and all the lights are out. You can only notice when the screen is showing black.

    Apart from that i have NO stuck, dead, failed or ****ed up pixels. The monitor i got is great, i think the majority are good as Scribby tests them thoroughly.
     
  6. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    oh time for a new screen soon. just read through this thread, damm good read and info!

    p.s the kiwi's posts esp made me chortle.
     
  7. Enmity

    Enmity Maha Guru

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    Haha, always happy to put a smile on someones face. What monitor do u have in mind?
     
  8. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    well ideally 2560x1440 120hz ips...but so far only seen a few for sale in uk.

    there's 1920x1080 but am currently @1920x1200 so really higher res would be better.

    although could be looking at £500 as it stands...
     
  9. Enmity

    Enmity Maha Guru

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    Awesome man, join the club! 1440p w/ 120hz out of the box is as far as i can see non existant hence why we have been giving these overclockable korean monitors a go. Theres actually quite a few to consider like the overlord tempest like veteran has just purchased and he has successfully got his running at 120hz although can be quite expensive if ur outside of the US due to shipping costs. There is also the xstar and qnix qx2710 which i purchased, these are the latest discovery in the korean monitor world as the catleap, overlord, crossovers etc are all s-ips panels whereas the qnix and xstar have a pls panel. Have a look around man, see if there is one you really like.

    As always, with overclocking there are no guarantees that youll hit 120hz, u may hit a wall at 96hz, or like me, mine artifacts at 120hz, but is fine at 110hz - even at 100hz it is a very significant feeling of smoothness. Eg: sometimes, as lame as this sounds, ill sit there just at windows desktop moving the mouse around thinking woww so damn smooth...and thats just moving the mouse, gaming is pure lust.
     
  10. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    been looking at those catleaps. are these the one that can do 120hz or I got the wrong model..?

    seem pretty cheap

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PERFECT-P...5080?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item46109d2618

    am in no real rush so i might give it a month or two to see what happens with new products.

    plus ideally I want a new gpu for the higher res.

    will ask veteran where he got his from.
     

  11. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    Catleaps are expensive, go for the Overlord Tempest instead as its cheaper and i beleive more thoroughly tested before being sent to the customer.
     
  12. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Replacement arrived today. Guess what? Revision A00 again, cross hatching up the ass. And even better, unlike the stuck pixels of the first one, the ones on this are stuck solid red so they're impossible to ignore. Good job Dell. The "manager" I spoke to claims the case is being escalated to the department which deals with quality control to see why they're shipping out monitors with a problem known for a year. Bull****, they're selling them because they know idiots will keep it. They tell me to wait a week or so for them to discuss this with that department, they claim they will play back the recorded call so they hear what I said but I doubt that.

    After they reply with some nonsense to me and try to send me another one with crosshatching again I'm going to have to end up requesting a refund. I'll request that they send a U2713H to avoid the crosshatching but I doubt they'll give a replacement that's $200 more ($1000 vs $800). Dell's quality has gone to crap, selling defective models from last year and acting surprised when I mention it's been known for year.
     
  13. Enmity

    Enmity Maha Guru

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    Neo, bro :( i feel for you man, can it get any worse? Im speechless and simply cant believe the bull**** they expect you to endure. If i was that manager id send u the model thats worth 200 more in a heartbeat after seeing how much **** uve been through and how many replacements have been faulty. If it were me id be acknowledging youve obviously lost faith in dell so lets take a hit to ensure this customer is kept happy, right?...at least this is what id expect.

    Catleaps, from what i understand, there are overclockable catleaps and there are not. The overclockable catleaps have the pcb in them from the original revision which happens to overclock whereas the newer revision like the one you linked is cheaper but does not overclock.If ur buying from ebay and it states 120hz capable then they are overclockable (not necessarily to 120hz though) these models last time i checked were still going for 800 usd.

    Like vet, i agree that the overlord is the better option when considering these two monitors, the overlord is believed to be more thoroughly tested, it has a much more sturdy stand which is also more adjustable and has the same panel as the catleap anyway. Hope this helps man.
     
  14. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Don't feel bad for me, I deal with so much crap in my life that I've become extremely patient. It's a skill everyone needs to develop, I'd be raging all the time otherwise. After I get refund on this I'll probably order an Overlord since that's what Vet recommends. Though a huge plus on any monitor for me is being able to turn it 90 degrees into portrait mode. I'm going to see which models offer a stand like that.

    Though if Dell's managers think on the grand scale of things instead of short term profit they will send me a U2713H, lose $200 (on paper only) now, gain thousands not too far later. Everyone I know and their dogs come to me for advice regarding everything electronic, Dell are probably going to lose my recommendation and lose a lot from that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  15. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    If the Overlord supports VESA mount you could always buy a desk mount for it with the money you save.
     

  16. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I took a quick look at their website aaand...

    Pros:
    1 - Stand turns 90 degrees, supports portrait mode

    2 - Comes in both glossy and AG

    3 - Single dual DVI-D connection means no additional input lag there

    4 - I assume it has no OSD? That would mean no additional input lag from that either

    5 - They claim it's an A grade panel

    Cons:
    1 - Only a dual DVI-D connection will not only be a pain because I have multiple devices, but that means it also may not be able to support my PS3. Putting a splitter between would introduce input lag and may not work.

    It turns out there are dual DVI-D to HDMI cables and adapters but that probably won't work unless it has a doubler despite the lack of a full scaler, so it could stretch 720p to 1440p.

    I don't plan on buying a separate monitor or TV for consoles as I mentioned so this is a biggie to me.

    2 - 3/3/5 stuck/dead pixels is considered normal? What the ****? What does that even mean? A total of 11 defects through the entire panel based on the area?

    3 - Only 1 year warranty, normally I'd be fine with that but this isn't a normal monitor.

    4 - Dollar store speakers built in. WHY?!

    5 - No precise reviews/measurements by extremely reputable/accurate sources like prad.de to be assured of any specs.

    6 - This is minor but I attach an infrared LED bar to my monitors, this has no USB hub to connect it to.

    I'd order it if I could get one without stuck/dead pixels and if it worked with a console.

    Well, looks like I'm screwed. They're out of stock anyway, I have no use for the OC model.

    On another note, how do you even tune it if it has no OSD? Just software on the PC?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  17. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    Id prefer to play a console on a big TV while relaxing sprawed out on the couch. You cant really do that on a PC as comfortable as it is. The Overlord i got is great and just like everyone else over on the official site. There is not one person complaining about there monitor in any thread. Everyone is happy same as myself.

    Even people who bought earlier Overlords who have a few stuck/dead pixels are more than happy. You couldnt see that anyhow unless you specifically looked for it and put your face close to the screen.:)
     
  18. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Been away from this thread for a while. So many things I would like to reply to and I've been putting it off. Here it goes anyways...

    Hehehe if I get the problem, I'll be sure to tackle it. As it stands, I don't run Windows 8, maybe that's what you use? I'm planning to go 8.1 soon though.

    Now Neo Cyrus, my man...
    I believe Scribby, the owner of Overlord Computers, screens the panels. For the price that these go for, I'd bet that's the case.

    You're fighting input lag yet you want a scaler. If you used the exact same monitor with a scaler vs. no scaler, surely the former would have higher input lag. You might get some monitors that have VERY low input lag yet still have a scaler, but that isn't the case most of the time. The Crossover 2720MDP, one Korean monitor which I'm sure you should consider, comes with multiple inputs yet has *only* 1 frame of input lag. Certainly 16ms is more acceptable than 2 frames of lag, at least, but the no OSD, no scaler displays have 5-7ms of input lag (e.g. Qnix QX2710, I believe the Catleap as well). Prad.de or overclockers.ru numbers, not sure.

    I believe your health is at stake with Dell currently. The suffering they're making you go through just to eventually get a *perfect* monitor for which you're paying double the price over a *gamble* monitor and the same price for a screened (I believe), overclockable, no cross-hatching monitor, is something to consider. It seems like they're not the only way to 100% guarantee that if it takes multiple replacements time after time to get that perfect monitor (that's the promise right?)

    I'm REALLY glad they have fixed that issue. I sure as well wouldn't stand a grainy AG coating.

    Don't forget the input lag and cross-hatching issues. The first is an issue you might have to live with even with a perfect monitor. If you're fine with that, it's fine of course. I'm all for minimizing input lag at every stage of the process, I'm sure you are as well. Compromises? Yes, everywhere there are compromises, I agree.

    Then it does seem like Scribby tests them, as Veteran is claiming.

    If Dell were a person, living under the same roof as me, I'd have thrown them out of the window. That sucks for such a reputable brand. I'll be looking up Michael Dell's address...

    You are raging all the time, it's just become a habit I guess. LOL

    Would be a nice option, though the argument is: does 720p scaled (doubler) to 1440p look better than 1080p scaled (full scaler) to 1440p? If current consoles are outputting 720p on the majority of titles, or you're fine with your console(s) outputting 720p on a title that they could handle in 1080p with ease (assuming the console actually renders that game at an internal resolution higher than 720p), what about future consoles? Will they be able to output 1440p? Sony's pushing 4K content on the PS4, shouldn't that mean it supports 4K output via HDMI? What are the limitations, and what about the other resolutions (1440p)? A good question I believe.

    I understand, but you could see the no OSD, no scaler monitors are actually the best-fit PC monitors.

    WHY would you have to pay for better speakers in a monitor?? I'd rather them not include speakers at all! I'll buy a $10 set of speakers if I wanted speakers that output sound, but I'm rather sure you already have speakers and headphones, so not sure what the issue is here...

    I've read at least one or two professional reviews, one concerning the Qnix QX2710 (PLS panel) here. If I come across any other links, I'll be sure to share them here, if I remember to do so.

    All in all, you shouldn't be worried as all those *grade A-* panels (something I don't think we are even sure of) are performing about just as good as the *grade A/A+* panels used in the monitors causing us to rip our hair out because they're not living up to what they should deliver for their price.

    Again, I'd rather not pay ANY extras for something that isn't DIRECTLY related to the monitor. And I hate built-in stuff. No upgradeability, no (easy) replacement, might not suit your needs (might underperform, might not be powered, might only support USB2.0 when you might want USB3.0, etc...)

    Software-based color calibration. Very very easy. I calibrate my panel here and I've never touched the OSD controls. ICC profiles and such are all software. Granted you could perform some calibration with the RGB controls, but I believ every proper calibration has an ICC profile working on the software side, and a color-aware application being used for color accuracy.

    You see, there are 2 points to software-based color calibration:
    1) Gamma correction. This could be applied across everything, Windows, games, non- color-aware apps, everything. I use CPKeeper for that, simple, does the job, awesome. PowerStrip could also be used as well.

    2) Color coordinate: I don't have much info about this, but this involves the specific colors more, not the gamma curve itself.

    What a long-winded person I am, but oh well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  19. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I read it all lol. PS3 games are very often 1024x576 and they're even 960x540 more often than 1280x720. But they're all internally stretched to 1280x720, so if a monitor has a doubler it'll work. There are almost no games with resolutions that are legitimately over 720p, the very few are 2D games.

    For example Gran Turismo whatever's "1080p" resolution is actually 1024x1080 stretched out to 1920x1080 and has no AA. That's why it doesn't look better than its 720p mode, that's supposedly 1280x720 with 4x AA.

    I'm still hoping they have the crosshatching fixed on the later A02 revisions, I'm going to bust Dell's balls as hard as I can trying to get a good result. I can wait.

    By the way, any of you with one of those Overlord/Yamakasi/Qnix/Whatever monitors, could you do me a favour and check if consoles will work on them? They probably have to be set to 720p beforehand, 1080p is likely to show a blank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  20. d_mouse

    d_mouse Maha Guru

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    So looks like Mr Tax man should be coming through with my refund early next week :banana: :banana:

    So I'm looking at the QNIX 2710 Evolution 2 monitor which is a whole $6 more expensive that the non "pixel perfect" version.

    Any last minute comments before I convince my wife to let me spend some $$$ ??

    Neo,

    If you're set on a brand name / multiple input monitor, have you looked at any of the other major brands?
    One of the guys at work has been raving on about his Samsung 27" for a few weeks now. Not sure which model exactly he has but I can ask when I back in the office on Monday.
     

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