2080 Stuttering / Microlags / Frametime Spikes

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by zane2k, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Ancient Guru

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    Most likely a bloated system full of various junk running on the background.

    I'd start with LatencyMon, check potentially the highest causes of latency.
     
  2. arel77

    arel77 Active Member

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    stand by mem cleaner helped me a ton
     
  3. arel77

    arel77 Active Member

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    also no windows telmentary / nvidia
     
  4. zane2k

    zane2k New Member

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    Can u explain this a little? what windows and nvidia telemetry/telemantary?

    How do I get rid of those?

    Ill try LatencyMon but were talking about a fresh windows installation on that these errors occure.
     

  5. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    Kolt likes this.
  6. Caesar

    Caesar Maha Guru

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    Check "PCIe Speed" in BIOS

    Try to reconfigure
     
  7. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Can you test without paging file on any drive? Just to see if the hitching/stuttering goes away? It could be related to that. I have similar issues.
     
  8. Strange Times

    Strange Times Master Guru

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    my pc stuttering after every new windows update. but with new drivers and cumulative updates it getting better and better every month. try 1803 or older
     
  9. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    What model is that Seasonic PSU?

    I've read some entry Seasonics can be a bit unreliable, newest evga G3 model is also questionable - especially entry level, ripples on psu lanes.
     
  10. Memorian

    Memorian Ancient Guru

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    Almost all game engines suffer from some minor hitching here and there. Although there are some games that are perfect, the new RE 2 remake for example(with DX11).
     

  11. YellowToucan

    YellowToucan New Member

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    I would like to add my stuttering case to the thread as well. My pc is not a new build. Before upgrading to the 2070, i used an AMD card for several years. After upgrading (obviously I used DDU) I started to notice some stuttering (check the frametimes in this pic https://imgur.com/oGHh44A), so naturally I reinstalled Windows, upgraded drivers, scoured millions of forum threads and tried all sorts of stuff to fix the stutter. It is still there. Benchmarks are fine, overall FPS in games is fine, but the stutter is driving me crazy. In some games I dont notice the hitching (Siege), whilst in others it is EASILY noticeable (CS GO, OW, APEX).

    Specs:
    Asrock z370 extreme 4
    8600k @ 4.6 (tried with no oc as well)
    MSI armor 2070
    16 gb gskill @ 3000mhz xmp
    w10 pro

    I am at a loss and have basically acknowledged the fact that i will have to deal with a semi functional gpu... Does anyone have ANY ideas why is this crap happening to so many people? The NVidia forums have a 10+ page thread regarding the stuttering.
     
  12. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Can you try what a suggested above. Disabling paging file?
     
  13. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Its likely a system synergy issue. Some errant other components driver (NICs, sound card, etc) is not playing well with the GPU, perhaps causing latency or other issues. No issues with stuttering with me.
     
  14. CrunchyBiscuit

    CrunchyBiscuit Master Guru

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    Yeah, that's true - some games just stutter a bit here and there, no matter what hardware/operating system they're being played on. Some other games are coded very efficiently and deliver a rock-solid and smooth experience, even on aging and slower systems.

    But aside from that (going slightly off-topic here), I'm starting to suspect the more recent drivers/cards from Nvidia suffer from a larger (and deeper) issue. I do not wish to spawn rumours or conspiracy theories, but I think the following information could be of significance (this is gonna be a long post - brace yourselves):

    - I'm still mostly gaming on my old system, the one listed in my specs (PhenomIIx4@3800, 4GB, AMDRadeonHD6950 2GB, Win7x64, regular hard disk).
    - My brother is gaming on a much more recent system (i7-5930K, 16GB, nvGTX980Ti, Win7x64, SSD).
    - A good friend of ours is gaming on one of the most recent systems (i7-8700, 16GB, nvGTX1050, Win10, SSD).

    We first started to notice something being off (not quite right) while playing Dying Light (DX11). The game clearly runs faster on the two systems using Intel+Nvidia (much higher frame rates), but somehow also stutters more on those two systems compared to mine. This is especially noticeable in the second zone of the game (city), where the game kinda attempts to load everything on the fly on the systems using Nvidia (stutters when weapons are being drawn/swapped for the first time, stutters when some audio files play for the first time, stutters sometimes when just moving from area to area), while it seems to preload/precache everything on the AMD system at the start of the level instead of on the fly - I just have to wait for about 2 secs after starting the map and everything is stutter-free afterwards. The first zone in the game seems to suffer from far less issues.

    The three of us then started playing Dead Island Definitive Edition and Dead Island Riptide Definitive Edition (Chrome Engine 6 & DX11 - same engine as Dying Light, but older version). The exact same problem occured. We thought it was just a specific issue with that particular engine or something, and just continued having fun.

    Then my bro and I started to play some older games we hadn't played in quite a while, first one being Half-Life 2 (DX9). Strange enough, the same issue occured there. On my brother's system (i7-5930K, 16GB, nvGTX980Ti, Win7x64, SSD), certain areas in the game stutter pretty badly (capped at 60fps, the frame rate counter keeps fluctuating between 58-62 fps in certain areas, frafs indicates pretty bad frame times with large spikes and dips), while the game runs 100% smooth on my system in the same areas (PhenomIIx4@3800, 4GB, AMDRadeonHD6950 2GB, Win7x64, regular hard disk - solid 60fps with a nearly flat line in frafs). We asked our friend to install the game on his system (i7-8700, 16GB, nvGTX1050, Win10, SSD) just to do some testing, and the same thing occured in the same areas - stuttering with no apparent cause (CPU and GPU aren't throttling, lots of free memory, no disk activity).

    The three of us then started (re)playing Borderlands 2 (DX9). Needless to say, the same issue occurs in that game. There are some loading/memory access/precaching stutters which affect all three systems equally, but on my system I just have to rotate the view a full 360 degrees after spawning to load the whole map into memory, while the game keeps stuttering randomly here and there on the two systems using Intel+Nvidia, like it's never fully loaded.

    PAYDAY 2 (DX9) - same issue. Tekken 7 & Street Fighter V (DX11) - same issue (although it happens rarely and usually right at the start of a match, it never happens on my older system). Serious Sam 2 (DX9) - same issue. Rage (OpenGL) - same issue (supposedly an Nvidia title, but it runs 100% smoothly on my old AMD system using a tweak here and there, while it doesn't on the two more recent ones).

    I then saw this video on youtube (listen to what is being said at 11:22):



    And read the following random threads/replies:

    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/need-your-help-fps-drops-stuttering-on-high-end-pc.420600/
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/n...tuttering-on-high-end-pc.420600/#post-5541624
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/n...ing-on-high-end-pc.420600/page-2#post-5545266
    https://stackoverflow.com/questions...cs-driver-causing-noticeable-frame-stuttering
    https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/6oubum/nvidia_confirms_stuttering_fps_drops_lag_problems/

    And I just read this one from here:

    ... and many (MANY) more (too many) threads when you look around in the Steam forums or just do a couple of searches for 950/960/970/980/1050/1060/1070/1080/2080/Nvidia sutters/hitching/frame times.

    So I started to realize this issue was probably not just related to a specific engine or API, but affects many more games (DX9, DX10, DX11, DX12, OpenGL, possibly Vulcan) on various systems, all using Nvidia.

    We checked and tried out lots of stuff - we made sure the games were running at the same settings on clean systems without any background applications/unnecessary services/browsers/recording software/virus scanners running (funny thing is that my AMD system is the oldest and, while clean, probably has the most messy registry of them all), tried out different drivers, enabling/disabling v-sync, forcing triple buffering and/or capping the fps using RTSS, Dxtory, RadeonPro or Nvidia Inspector (v1 and v2), enabling/disabling desktop composition/Aero, enabling/disabling HPET, enabling/disabling Hyper Threading, enabling/disabling high resolution multimedia timers, borderless windowed/exclusive fullscreen, using the Standby List cleaner on the Win10 system, etc.

    Some settings/changes did have an effect, but none solved the problem. I think it's safe to say that this issue is not related to operating system, since the two more recent systems, one using Win7 and the other Win10, are both affected equally. I can't remember exactly which driver versions we tried out on my brother's system, I think we went back to 388.something. Our friend (on the i7-8700, 16GB, nvGTX1050, Win10, SSD) refused to downgrade his drivers because Win10 always seems to force its own thing anyway, and he wasn't prepared to take any risks.

    The problem could possibly be related to SSD drivers, but I read threads from people having used an AMD card before without stutters on an SSD, then switching to Nvidia using the same SSD, and are now suffering from stutters. The problem could also be related to the Spectre/Meltdown security fixes, which I do not have installed on my system (just something to keep in mind). However, I think by now most people on more modern systems have these updates installed, yet I don't read much about a possible connection there. The problem could also be related to motherboard and/or RAM, but I doubt it because my brother's system consists of a Gigabyte motherboard and our friend plays on an MSI motherboard with a different chipset, using different types of RAM from different manufacturers on different speeds. Probably not related to the PSU, since the problem occurs at the same spots in a rather predictable fashion most of the time. Also, our PSUs are vastly overpowered and from good brands.

    I should really try out putting my brother's card in my system and my card in his to further track down possible causes, but he's not prepared to tinker any more. I'm the kind of person who wants to get to the core of the problem. I want to test more to find out what exactly is causing this behaviour, but since I kinda depend on my brother and friend to do so, I'm not free to do whatever I want. Both my brother and friend have given up - my brother thinks the issue is rather annoying but plays all his games without v-sync anyway, so he's kinda used to sloppy motion. Our friend doesn't really care much at all - he didn't even notice the issue, claimed everything was running smooth before it was pointed out, and plays without a frame rate cap and with v-sync disabled. He's like: "Yeah bro, but I'm gaming on an Nvidia card, so this is THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED", and that's that.

    The type of stutters we're seeing all look the same, like a memory management problem (load/read/write/clear, RAM and/or VRAM, most likely the latter). They look worse than just a missed frame, but not as bad as like a full mini-freeze. They're usually short and, while annoying to look at, don't really affect gameplay too much. It really reminds me of a driver issue AMD used to suffer from for nearly three years (looked exactly the same) - many games (Resident Evil Revelations, Syndicate, a handful of games based on UE3 like Dishonored) suffered from a VRAM management issue which stalled loading/reading/writing/clearing, causing hitches. This issue got completely fixed with driver version 13.12 and never reared its ugly head again since (as far as I can tell). This is why I think the most likely cause are the drivers from Nvidia.

    Luckily, more recent games still receive regular updates, specifically targeting new hardware, and Nvidia isn't passively standing by either. Same can't be said for older games on older hardware/operating systems, unfortunately.

    TL;DR:
    I suspect a driver issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  15. YellowToucan

    YellowToucan New Member

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    I will try your suggestion tomorrow after work and will give another update.

    I reseated my gpu today and double checked all the cables. It sags a little, maybe that is the cause of the stutter?
     

  16. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Doubtful. Given how long GPUs are lately unless you purposely try to avoid it it's going to happen. It won't effect performance as far as I know.
     
  17. CrunchyBiscuit

    CrunchyBiscuit Master Guru

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    Well, it could be the cause of the stutter. It's probably unlikely, but I know that my old AMD HD6950 is equipped with a pretty heavy custom cooler, and also sags due to its weight. When it sags too much (usually happens after cleaning and sloppily reseating the card), the PCI-E bus interface speed gets lowered from 'x16 2.0' to 'x8 2.0' according to GPU-Z. This could potentially affect performance. I think it happens because some conductive parts of the slot don't make proper contact or something. Anyway, reseating again has always helped me so far.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  18. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Interesting. Good to know.
     
  19. Erick

    Erick Active Member

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    Don't use framelimiters. Don't use DDU. Let's start by looking at your motherboard voltages and settings. ASUS does a nice job with testing in this area. I discovered that two of my CPU's PLL voltage on those X79 Fatal1ty motherboards (thanks to no oversight from that one guy in charge) were incorrect. It was 1.68 volts and it's usually 1.8 volts.

    Some things to know:

    -To start....unless you need to....if you purely play games on it.....remove One Drive. This is such an app that steals CPU cycles. Use a tool to observe your installed apps. Most all apps running are using the same priority and the old multimedia timer (HPET today and Vista Multimedia Scheduler) tries to work with VSync to produce a stable picture. Yep....those two are tied to the hip. Most people will say disable HPET, but it will use the OS's timers regardless.

    While the CPU tries to schedule the process, the GPU is trying to move the pixels from it's storage to the monitor with the help of RAM and the CPU....so you can see the problem with microstutter....the Northbridge Chipset and the lazy motherboard manufacturer. Some are and some are on top of things. This is why you need to capture all voltages from the motherboard to see what they are set to. No need to overclock the CPU, but you will also need to check the RAM's voltages as well.

    -Your monitor timings are at the default and the manufacturer won't tailor to your needs. There are some issues around this:

    Your vertical range may need to be updated and recertified for Win 10.

    -The NVIDIA Control Panel has too many filters that affect one another and will cause microstutter. For example, FXAA should never be mixed with MFAA or Anisotropic Filtering. MFAA produces a softer image, but FXAA uses more CPU to compensate for the image.

    ...yeah it's a lot and this is what I had to check. As you update...write this stuff down.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  20. RPGgamesplayer

    RPGgamesplayer Maha Guru

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    I had this happen turned out my motherboard needed a bios update and now my RTX gpu when gaming is now silky smooth.
     

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