Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by heymzey, Jan 30, 2012.
Any idea when are they supposed to come out ?
I do not think that it will happen any time soon. 120Hz VA panels will most likely arrive before IPS.
Yeah, but even if they make 120hz VA, I doupt it will get rid of the Ghosting from Black to White images.
Ok then, I'll have to pick a 60Hz IPS or 120Hz TN
Any of you know some 120Hz that still have good image quality ? All I hear from 120Hz is "very smooth but much less vivid color than IPS"
Go for IPS
I've used all sorts of monitors in the work I do (ISP, TN, TN 3D and various VA monitors) and I would go an IPS 60Hz over a TN 120Hz any day. Colours on the IPS are WAY better than the TN side by side.
Unless you want 3D, don't go 120Hz. And regarding the smoothness, you won't notice the difference when playing games 60 FPS+, which I see you won't have a problem with cuz you have a GTX 580. The loss of image quality is not worth minor smoothness increase.
I wish everyone were saying the same...
Speak when you have experience, not when you have your incorrect assumptions. There is a huge difference between 120hz and 60hz.
If you have a good enough GPU don't let it go to waste by vsyncing it. IPS are really nice but 120Hz monitors are super smooth. Even if you can only produce 80-90+FPS its still nice even under desktop situations. Friend of mine was calling BS and was swearing to me that IPS (owned one) was the best then they saw the difference with 120Hz and they admitted they were amazed and you don't necessarily have to associate 120Hz with 3D, it is capable of 3D but you don't have to use it. If you can see a difference between 30fps and 60fps, you will definitely have the same feeling going from 60 to 120, its just an experience thing, you have to see it to believe it (real 120Hz monitor not TV).
Ok but is the IQ really that bad vs IPS ?
I think that all depends on if you buy a low brand one vs a higher quality brand one, same goes with any other panel. IPS panels look good anywhere you look at it but say you have a S27A950D it has a really wide range of view, i mean im not gonna look at the monitor all the way to the side. If you're playing a fast pace game or any game for the matter, I dont think you'll stay long enough to glare at the image quality and I don't know where people are getting that it has bad IQ though IPS is ideal for photography/picture editing/photoshop etc.. and 120Hz can be associated with fps games that high refresh rate benefit from.
Well, I do play some FPS, but I will play many non-fps games too... many MMORG ..
It's 50/50... I'M not going to play FPS games only.. so that makes it harder to decide
I would recommend 120Hz monitor if you play a lot of fast paced games, like say racing games, simulators and FPS. IPS does have better colors and you can view it at any angle. Another drawback of 120Hz monitors is you need a GPU capable of producing those frame rates and also if the game engine can support it as some are coded for 30/60fps etc... IPS for regular gaming/regular use/photography/editing, 120Hz for fast pace games.
i'll back IPS here.
ive had a 37inch panasonic IPS panel TV as my pc's display for a year and half now. it hasnt stopped me from scoring in the top three of online hardcore COD matches. the size of the display has probably helped with identifying far away opponents. the colour depth is also quite awesome and the size helps with immersion.
that being said, its not as smooth as most 120hz displays (although i can run motionpro to interpolate to 120hz). it is a notable difference if youre good at seeing high speed motions. the only real issue is that to run 3d or 120hz, you will need an SLI/crossfire setup in a lot of the newer games. crossfire and SLI, whilst they have matured, still have their flaws. when i buy a game, i generally prefer to be able to play it straight away, rather than having to wait a month or so for an SLI/crossfire profile to be released (was annoying when i had a 5850x2 setup a while back), so im avoiding SLI/crossfire until it matures a bit more. so since i prefer a single GPU setup, i'll stick with a 60hz panel.
Did you not read what I said? I work with all types of monitors everyday and I've tried a 120Hz (Samsung AS950) and an IPS display (DELL U3011) side-by-side, using 7970s on top of that. Therefore I AM speaking from experience and was giving my OPINION based on my experience so don't go accusing others of assuming when you yourself jump to conclusions without facing facts.
To the OP, just so you don't get confused, my bottom line was I don't think the smoothness increase is worth the IQ loss. Take that for what it's worth. The only way you'll know what to get is if you go try them out somewhere like at a friend's place or a local shop.
First off, you said nothing about 120HZ monitors that you tested, only the difference panel types. Secondly, no such thing as a Samsung AS950, but there is a A950 which is a 46in TV that isnt a true 120hz screen. Just a 60hz that uses frame interpolation. How about you try a real 120hz Monitor, not a gimmick tv.
Maybe you are mixing model number up idk, but if you are, you most likely saw a gen 1 120hz monitor; there's a huge difference between gen 1 and gen 2 monitors. Heres a good 120hz monitor, not a huge difference from my IPS and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009222
Typo... Samsung SA950 http://www.samsung.com/sg/consumer/flagship/ls27a950dsxs/
And regarding your first comment, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum can infer that I've used 120Hz displays by what I said in my post.
The problem with TN is narrow viewing angle.
As your head moves off-center from the display, the colors become distorted.
The best image quality is directly in front, line-of-sight at a right angle to the panel surface.
If you're the only user, and you're sitting in front of the monitor, then TN is OK.
Very large monitors that use TN will have some color/contrast distortion around the edges.
This is because the angle from your eyes to the panel (@ the edge of the panel) is becoming far from 90 degrees.
In general, a good quality TN, like the Samsung S**A950, has full RGB color spectrum, and when viewed on-center will compete rather well with IPS.
Most likely, if you are concerned about color, and want 120hz, the S**A950 is your best bet.
Good contrast [and black level] matters too, maybe even more (personally, I prefer good contrast and OK color, versus good color and OK contrast). VG236H (after adjustment) does well in that regard.
120hz IPS has done OK in HDTVs, where 120hz is mostly used for smooth 2D.
For 2D, having ghosting in between frames is not a big deal, as [at 120hz] the image has barely changed between frames anyways.
For 3D, ghosting is a problem. The image changes dramatically between frames, going between left/right viewpoints. It means your left eye sees a ghost image of what the right eye saw, and vice versa. It hurts the 3D experience.
3D TVs can be rather expensive, making more exotic implementations of IPS that deal better with ghosting budgetable. Also, the way they solve it is usually with aggressive overdrive. With laggy pixels, you need to start volting them for the next image, while you're wrapping up drawing the current image. To do so, you need to know what the next image is. In order to know, you have to delay drawing images, until you get the next image(s). This is buffering. This means a lot of input lag - something you don't want in a monitor.
3D Monitors are in a "situation"...
- 3D Monitors historically have been marketed at a lower price point than 3D TVs.
- TN is cheaper than IPS, hence more appropriate in a 'cheap [compared to 3D TV]' display.
- Monitors in general lean towards precision over color (TVs lean towards color over precision).
- TN has less ghosting [than 'cheap' IPS], more accurately representing the current frame at any given time.
People are accustomed to "cheap" 3D monitors (TN, currently).
IPS monitors are already expensive (generally, more expensive than 120hz TN).
A 120hz IPS would likely have a price tag that conjures "omg cat".
My suspicion is that in 5 years, OLED (looking at LG's 55" oled for $8k usd) will be more common, and prices will fall, and it will start to replace LCD tech in general - maybe before 120hz I/O IPS even has a chance to gain much [monitor] market share.
Here are two interesting posts. (Thanks Sheherazade and Xeon)
It's shows exactly the confusion that result from that thread's question.. (always a pleasure to read you shehrazade btw..)
I'd like to know what both of you guys think of each other's post ?
Could you guys please refute each other ?
Xeon, what do you think of Shehrazade's post ?
Shehrazade, what do you think of Xeon's post ?
The SA950 is 550$ :S would I get similar performance with a SA750D ?
The reviews of the 750D on newegg are horrible however.... 120hz is only available through the DP from what I can read... not sure If I'll have DP on my new rig (I know few about connectors and such...)
Also I just read that HDMI can only run 60Hz at 1920x1080p ? .. then why in the hell would I want to buy a HDMI 120Hz 1920x1080p display just to have it run at 60Hz only ???
The difference in color vibrancy and viewing angle isn't enough for me to consider an IPS panel for the prices they're being sold at. Viewing angle aside, you can get a TN that has very nice IQ that can substitute an IPS, and lets not forget the fact we can control color vibrancy with CCC/NVCP. As photo editor, video editor, and gamer, I'd rather spend the money on a decent 120Hz monitor for the extra smoothness and precision over a slight benefit in brightness/contrast and color vibrancy.