Is it better to cap frame rate with RTSS or NVCP v3 Limiter?

Discussion in 'Rivatuner Statistics Server (RTSS) Forum' started by DemaRCO45, Apr 14, 2023.

  1. DemaRCO45

    DemaRCO45 Guest

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    This question popped into my head after watching Battle(non)sense’s video about this here:


    It’s been 3 years since he posted that video, and now I’m wondering if anything has changed since then.

    With all the updates the RTSS received, and NVIDIA drivers released, have these frame rate limiters improved in a way so that the input lag is now closer to that of the in-game’s FPS limiters?

    Also, what about frame times? Which of these two provides more consistent and stable frame times?

    I don’t have proper tools to monitor input delay, and as frame times are concerned, I can only use MSI Afterburner’s OSD, so I was hoping you can help me with this, as it seems you’ve done plenty of testing with these tools,

    So, out of these two, which one provides the least amount of input lag, and consistent, stable frame times?
     
  2. Passus

    Passus Ancient Guru

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    I always use nvidia's limiter now for both global and per game when needed

    I used to use RTSS before
     
  3. DemaRCO45

    DemaRCO45 Guest

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    Hmm, so does NVCP MFR work better than RivaTuner then?


    Part of the reason why I asked which of these two is better is because I wanted to see which one would provide better game responsiveness (that is, less input latency), especially in competitive games.

    This idea came to me from one of Battle(non)sense's videos which he made back in 2019 here:


    TL;DW: In that video, he concluded that Ultra Low Latency Mode reduces input latency only while you're playing games with high GPU usage (97-99%), whereas if you drop below that value, the ULLM does nothing, and can sometimes have the opposite effect, where it introduces more input lag.

    However, he also found out that if you limit your game to a certain frame rate that your PC can maintain consistently, you will get an immensely lower input lag as compared to running the game without a limiter (even with ULLM), and not only that, but at a lower GPU load as well.

    Now for me for example, some of the games that I play are: CS GO, Starcraft 2, fighting games, DotA 2, etc.

    Most of them aren’t GPU bound, in fact, only a few of them are.

    For example: Starcraft 2, and many fighting games are locked to 60 FPS by default, and my GPU usage in those games hovers around 22-50% (depending on the game), while CPU usage percent varies across different games and different cores, as some of these games utilize either only one core, two cores, or all 4 of them.

    One thing that I noticed on these 60 FPS-locked games while testing both RTSS and NVCP MFR was that:
    • Without limiters, the frametimes fluctuated around the 16.6ms range by 0.1-0.9ms (meaning every second, or split second it went from, 16.6 to 16.5, 16.7, 16.2, 16.9, 17.2…)
    • When either of the two limiters were enabled, and set to 60 FPS (even tho the games are already capped at that value) the frametimes immediately stabilized at 16.6ms and didn’t move at all from there. Like, the OSD frametime graph was a beautiful flat line, and never had any spikes in it
    Again, most of the tests were monitored via MSI Afterburner’s OSD as I, unfortunately, lack the dedicated tools to test input latency to see if frame-limiting these games does indeed have an effect on reducing input lag, as I would really like to know.

    So, with all of this in mind does anyone know if frame-limiting improves latency in FPS-locked games that have low GPU load, and does the Low Latency Mode feature of NVCP also have any effect on input latency (whether set to On, or Ultra)?
     
  4. Hertzian56

    Hertzian56 Guest

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    I just use NCP globally, some games rtss/msiab can effect performance/stability but if you have an nvidia card I don't see how NCP could.
     
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  5. DemaRCO45

    DemaRCO45 Guest

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    You know, that's a weird thing actually. When I was testing 60 FPS-locked games (by capping them at the same value), I mentioned that my frametimes stabilized and that CPU and RAM usage remained the same with both RTSS and NVCP MFR, however, the GPU usage went up when using only NVCP’s MFR.

    When I was using RTSS, the GPU usage remained the same as without limiters enabled, however, immediately after enabling NVCP MFR, the GPU usage went up in most games.

    The ones that had low GPU usage (22-30%) remained the same when using MFR, however, the ones that had (35+%) went up by 25-45%, resulting in a GPU usage within the range of 60-80% (again, game dependent)

    So, with this information in mind, is there something wrong with MFR, or is it normal for it to behave like that (as it’s a driver-level limiter)?

    Again, most of the tests were monitored via MSI Afterburner’s OSD.
     
  6. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    It's been some time since I tried NVCPL but back then (when the feature was released) I sometimes got weird results so I always go back to RTSS.
     
  7. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Always using rtss on nvidia or amd cards but i've seen somewhere both limiters have similar input lag.
     
  8. Hertzian56

    Hertzian56 Guest

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    Huh good to know I've used both of them, I think before it was available in NCP (or I didn't know about it), I used RTSS once for maxfps, it's a lot more hassle though imo than just going to ncp and putting max fps in there for all games.

    I couldn't say on the difference for any system between RTSS NCP, those details, unless I have a noticeable difference in any one game, don't interest me really. I think a lot of the stutters that people report are at least in PART to OC'ing gpu/mem usually people who use rtss with msiab do a small OC, I do. Undervolting etc Of course it's also the lazy devs and ngreedia loves it, just buy the next tier up solves all problems! lol


    In my case this is appropriate for my system so I could see it being a hassle w NCP too, for multiple games at different max fps. Many games don't have that setting in them so now I don't worry about it with the global NCP setting. 300FPS on an old game or low needs game just wastes energy, overuses fans and resources contributing to wearing out faster and such. Especially with only a 120hz screen. Also fan noise etc
     
  9. dezo

    dezo Member Guru

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    DemaRCO45: That higher GPU usage with NV limiter is actually NV implementation of power saving, see here. At first glance it seems weird but If you leave power management in its default "Normal/Optimal" state and also monitor your GPU frequency and power consumption, you will notice that with active NV limiter the GPU usage is more aggresive towards higher percentages but with lower clocks and much lower power consumption.

    I think that this can only be utilized internally by NV drivers and their limiter. External limiters like RTSS cannot access that feature so the clocking behaves like before - lower usage percentages but higher clocks and higher power consumption. This feature is also deactivated for NV limiter if you set power management in NVCP to "Prefer maximum performance".
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2023
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  10. DemaRCO45

    DemaRCO45 Guest

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    Oh, never knew about that. Thanks for the explanation, dezo :)

    And yeah, my power management was set on the default "Optimal Power" mode, so I guess there's nothing wrong with MFR after all :D

    But with this information in mind, now I'm back to asking the same question as before. Would it now be better to use:
    • RTSS
    • NVCP Limiter
    • RTSS + Power Management = "Prefer maximum performance"
    For the best performance, frame times, etc.?
     

  11. dezo

    dezo Member Guru

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    With "Prefer max. perf." there is not much of a difference between these two limiters. RTSS is more convenient - you can toggle the limiter on/off or even set different values while in game - can't do that with NV limiter. RTSS also seems a bit more precise in Vulkan/OpenGL games when observing frame time chart, but that is not really noticeable when playing.

    The "Prefer max. perf." mode is a safe bet if you want smoothest frame times. Its not like the GPU will suck max. power all the time, it just prevents the GPU to downclock iself to lower power states while playing as that can cause hitching in less demanding games.
     
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  12. Passus

    Passus Ancient Guru

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    Does not use that much power no but it does use full voltage which is worse
     
  13. Andy_K

    Andy_K Master Guru

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    power (Watt) = current (A) * voltage (V)

    So... when there is not much power draw but the voltage is still high the current is respectively low.
    How is this even worse?
     
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  14. ivanosky

    ivanosky Active Member

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    I use the NVCP Framerate Limiter

    I use a laptop, and as other have mentioned, when using the NVCP Framerate Limiter, the GPU tends to show higher usage at lower clock speeds, while capping with RTSS it shows lower usage at higher clock speeds. This can cause higher GPU temperatures when using RTSS compared to the NVCP Framerate Limiter, which makes CPU temperatures to increase as well.
     
  15. wtfisgoingon

    wtfisgoingon Member

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    RTSS.

    It's not even remotely close enough to bother comparing the two.
     

  16. Glottiz

    Glottiz Ancient Guru

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    You should use 'Prefer max performance' only if you are having issues (for example GPU doesn't fully boost like it should in some new demanding game). Overwise, you'll be wasting a ton of power and creating heat for no reason. There is absolutely no reason to use 'Prefer max performance' for older games. For example, if I play WoW at 4K 60FPS with 'Normal' power mode my GPU sips like 80-120 watts and in 'Prefer max performance' it runs at 250-300 watts.
     
  17. dezo

    dezo Member Guru

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    Glottiz: There is a reason for me. I use max. perf. for my retro ports running in Vulkan API (like vkQuake) at 141FPS 1440p. My 3080ti sits at 100-110W which is hardly "ton of power". If I use "normal" with those games I get random stutters and hitches with power consumption around 50-80W, so GPU is basically running idle. I will trade that 30W-50W difference for smooth gameplay anytime. I agree that modern games will utilize GPU at full power anyway, so max. perf. is really handy mainly for older stuff and he asked for best frametimes/performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2023
  18. Timur Born

    Timur Born Member Guru

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    60 fps:
    [​IMG]

    30 fps via Rivatuner:
    upload_2023-4-25_12-27-51.png

    30 fps via NVidia driver:
    upload_2023-4-25_12-28-13.png
     
  19. Timur Born

    Timur Born Member Guru

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    30 fps via NVidia Adaptive VSync "Half Refresh Rate" (in-game VSync off or on makes no difference):
    upload_2023-4-25_17-54-16.png
     
  20. DemaRCO45

    DemaRCO45 Guest

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    What game as this tested on?

    Also, which of the two (RTSS & MFR) would you recommend?
     

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