NVIDIA Announces GeForce RTX 3070, 3080 and 3090 (With Even More Shader processors)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. wrathloki

    wrathloki Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    318
    GPU:
    EVGA 3080
    No marketing? It sounds like you’ve eaten their marketing right up.
     
    Aura89 likes this.
  2. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,776
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    GPU:
    黃仁勳 stole my 4090
    The only thing I've seen from Radeon group is a tweet that was a single emoji, and some dumb line which was an announcement that there's an announcement coming. Vs nVidia flooding the internet with a whole lot which contains no actual, useful, information beyond pricing, giving us the same amount of verifiable performance info that AMD has given: Zero.

    Their buying out of Digital Foundry to hype their launch without actually giving real info was some of the lamest sleaze I've seen in a long time.

    Also... what? No comment about the points why I have hope for Radeon group this time?
     
  3. wrathloki

    wrathloki Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    318
    GPU:
    EVGA 3080
    There’s also the whole past experience part. The last time AMD had a competitive card was when they were still ATI and that was the 290x. Even then those cards had big frame time problems and worse than that was their driver support.

    From the little real world data we’ve seen so far on the 3080 it still looks to be a pretty good upgrade, if not the 2x performance promised in every game.

    By the way, your characterization of Digital Foundry is pretty hyperbolic. It’s bordering on the whole “ethics in games journalism” thing.
     
  4. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,776
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    GPU:
    黃仁勳 stole my 4090
    Frame time problems? Welcome to video cards! You know what I had during the 290X era? A 290X which I returned for being defective then switched to a GTX 970. 100% the same frame time problems, nearly identical per game, in fact. I hardly play a game to this day where I don't notice frame time issues. Though I have to say switching from an i7 4770K @ 4.2GHz to a Ryzen 2700 did help somewhat. It seems to be just as much, if not more, the fault of the game devs. I call it like I see it, and I've never held back criticism about AMD, especially the Radeon group. But, ass frame times during that era were not an AMD thing; nVidia suffered badly from it in my personal experience, and still do right now, at least with my GTX 1080 Ti. I bet most people simply don't notice. Even games on the damn consoles have frame pacing issues which make my eyes bleed and no one notices.

    A 3080 won't come close to 2x a 2080 in any game unless you count the absolute best case scenarios, at specific resolutions, with specific hardware, with optimized drivers (which are NOT optimized for past gens), with DLSS, and all RTX enabled. Then yes, some games could theoretically reach 80%+ increased performance in those VERY SPECIFIC scenarios. And no, Digital Foundry was payed to do a hype piece, and did a hype piece, there was nothing hyperbolic about what I said. They were bought.
     

  5. wrathloki

    wrathloki Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    318
    GPU:
    EVGA 3080
    I switched from 290x to a 980 ti and frame time issues were gone, even in the same games at the same frame rates. I rarely see spikes like that anymore when frame rates are steady. I also didn’t have to worry about drivers only being put out 4 times a year with many games left hanging.

    As for Digital Foundry, are you saying they made that data up? I seriously doubt that. Cherry picked, sure, but those won’t be the only games that see gains like that. In any case that’s not the only info out there, we saw that leak yesterday which showed decent gains at 4k and less exciting gains at 1440p vs 2080. Anyways, if all you have is 1440p and you’re running a 2080 then why bother upgrading anyways?
     
  6. Maddness

    Maddness Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    GPU:
    3080 Aorus Xtreme
    You two sound like an old married couple.:p
     
    HandR likes this.
  7. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    969
    GPU:
    Inno3D RTX 3090
    Thinking that RDNA 2.0 and Ampere will only end up being +40% faster is very naive.

    Don't forget all the extra stuff they have in a better version, like VRS, and most importantly, direct storage.

    It also seems like that the more competent the engine, the better Ampere performs even compared to Turing, which already has some of these features.

    Also the double FP32 did leave a ton of space for optimisations, people forget that too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
    Maddness likes this.
  8. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    3,581
    GPU:
    RTX 4090 Gaming OC
    I can guarantee you as a 3090 buyer, that i wont ever be using dlss - i'd rather play at low fps...
     
    itpro likes this.
  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,564
    Likes Received:
    2,961
    GPU:
    XFX 7900XTX M'310
    There's also some interesting underlying changes and potential improvements, seems like a big issue around D3D11 or D3D11_1 multi threading and deferred render contexts and driver command lists which from the sounds of it was heavily based around cache and how that was sub-optimal or even below specs on Vega along with general silicon / hardware level issues like it's Next Gen Geometry / NGG path being non-functional and impossible to get going (Even on Linux it seems.) and such but improved on in Navi / RDNA and then further refined in Navi20 / RDNA2 here.

    Ray tracing and direct storage plus D3D12.2 sampler feedback is going to be interesting but it will take time to see these utilized and however developers actually end up utilizing this stuff which I personally expect adds another layer of utter [bleep]-ery on getting low level API utilization going and going really well.

    ~Can't get worse than the early to mid 2000's PC port and PC gaming state overall though that's a thing.
    (Not a good one but a thing non-the-less. :p )


    EDIT: Having the hardware is a thing but then there's also the drivers, took NVIDIA like a year to thoroughly overhaul the D3D11 code for some nice gains and then a bit more for developers to start utilizing this stuff plus NVIDIA had like 3x or so the driver engineer manpower that AMD has although it sounds like things have improved a bit though they've also lost some talent to Intel and NVIDIA I think. (More about the professional and GCN stuff perhaps less so this RDNA architecture and newer process?)

    D3D12 and Vulkan support is doing better for AMD's software side and support though, mostly.
    Again though developers and the PC port variable quality and how this is actually going to end up.


    EDIT: Would also allow AMD to send over some of their staff to the developer studios like oh Ubisoft perhaps and have them slap their devs with a trout or whatever for every bad decision made like sticking Anvil Next with kinda D3D12 on XBox and bottlenecking the engine with D3D11 on PC.

    Big studio with thousands of involved developers what wondrous hope that gives smaller studios getting things right eh?
    (Well that's the sort of "AAA-A" <- Yeah there's four now, wee. Anyway that's the studio size intended for getting really into low-level API development anyway which also means AMD sorta has to fix their D3D11 performance at some point, any year now.)


    There's id Software though and even under Bethesda/Beta-Shed with the idTech engine still going strong so that's like one studio getting it working really well and no surprise it was a showcase for NVIDIA's Ampere performance ha ha.


    EDIT: Joking aside AMD improves their hardware and software that's good.
    PC port quality continues to be varied that's less good.

    Could improve though but I expect there to be a few years of lowest common hardware denominator and varied time and resources spent on said PC porting process anyway before it gets going like it should.

    Anything could happen, trying to be realistic and positive at least. :D
    (Even if a realistic outlook would be a more negative one but oh well can always hope it goes better than expected and perhaps, maybe.)



    EDIT: Hmm might have read that a bit wrong and mostly discussed around RDNA2 and AMD less about Ampere here and NVIDIA whoops.

    Well both of them competing is also a good thing.
    Terrible PC port quality kinda hinders both too so that still applies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  10. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,125
    Likes Received:
    969
    GPU:
    Inno3D RTX 3090
    If you see how GCN performs on the consoles, or even its OpenGL/Vulkan drivers, I would say that the silicon never had issues. Maybe it was harder to write a single-threaded API driver for, but that's where NVIDIA made the big jump. Their now famous "Mantle" driver, basically seems to have re-written their DX9-11 stack, making it effectively multi-threaded. That was the real tombstone for AMD, who never managed to do the same.

    It's quite telling that some games or emulators who are CPU-dependent run faster if you drop the DXVK translator DLL in their folder, than in "native" DX9-11 that the AMD driver provides (even in Windows). Which also tells us that AMD could have done this on a per-case basis for all popular games. This story is also very clear in Linux. People (especially smooth brains in the AMD subreddit) constantly complain about how "terrible" OpenGL is, how AMD is "right" to abandon it, while the open source driver FLIES in the exact same hardware. AMD has never, ever managed to bridge this gap with NVIDIA, and if they have a downfall that's what it will be.

    Let me predict the future for you. All the people who got "future proofed" 6/6, 6/12, 8/8, 8/16 CPUs, with PCIe 3.0 (another thing that doesn't "matter"), and have Navi 1.0 cards or the crippled Turing cards without RT/RTX, will start bitching about the new batch of "unoptimised" AAA games in 2021. It won't take any time, all these things are here for almost two years now, and the console APIs are so simple that people have 3D engines working on them fairly optimised in under a month. Both Microsoft and Sony report similar times. These boxes can do new very interesting things, but they're not exactly alien like the x360/Ps3 era was.

    NVIDIA's driver for DX worked automagically, as far as I can remember. Whatever they did was on a very fundamental level. Don't forget that AMD only has five people doing their Linux driver which is apparently done from scratch and is a great example of a good driver. Even the OpenGL is really fast.


    I don't think they will ever fix it. They buried their heads in the sand about it years ago, and now they look "forward". They will forever implicitly blame developers for being "lazy" and not using the APIs that AMD has decided to write a proper driver for.


    id has a great engine and great engineers. I wish all the games that Bethesda published was using it. It is actually a very good showcase for Ampere, as we all know this is a competent engine.

    The only bad AAA port I have seen lately has been Horizon Zero Dawn, nothing else. Even that is currently in its 4th patch, and I think they will fix everything eventually. I honestly don't remember the last "bad port".
     
    JonasBeckman likes this.

  11. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,564
    Likes Received:
    2,961
    GPU:
    XFX 7900XTX M'310
    The silicon issue is more of a earlier problem for Vega and AMD's touted features that were either dropped or under-delivered though by comparison RDNA has made great improvements here such as a functional NGG path though it looks like some of the software updates and the Linux code commits in particular address a few hardware issues but nothing on the same level as what happened here.
    (Linux and support for ROCm seems to be a recurring concern that's coming but taking time due to issues with funding I think is what it was last I checked.)

    Navi can still have some scaling issues under older API's for getting up to it's full boost clocks but that's a software issue and after Witcher 2 I think AMD has mostly resolved the worst cases. (GPU shouldn't drop to near idle clock speeds at least.)

    Suppose the two bigger hurdles on PC are also slowly ending far as lowest common denominator as the base target goes and feature adaption and readiness for some of the upcoming features, Windows 7 OS majority is ending and Windows 10 is overtaking it including even the newer versions at least up to 1903 and 1909 which is good plus SSD's are also becoming more common over the HDD storage device although if NVME 1.4 is required for Direct Storage API compatibility that's going to be another issue too. (Microsoft already mentioned support on selected hardware which I expect means the newer NVME format unless it just performs better under PCI Express 4.0 and potential speeds but it's not a hard limit.)

    Agreed on AMD moving forward with D3D12 and Vulkan as the priority much as D3D11 will remain a supported API though I'd like effort on fixing the support and performance here but even if it was a GPU hardware issue chances are AMD will keep going with the low-level API's as the primary focus.

    And port wise I'm very curious on how the upcoming games for 2021 will turn out, PS4 and Xbox One already had improvements over the X360 and particularly the PS3 and Cell system but even if it's familiar and closer to traditional API's or the x86-x64 software I don't expect it to carry over to PC much though Microsoft might have further tweaked D3D12_2 so it's closer and thus easier to port over if this will be the main API on the X Series consoles now.


    Port quality wise yeah Horizon needed more time, Borderlands 3 also applies (Think the benchmarks for the 3080 showed the lowest gains here but I need to check on that again.) but it's improved at least and recently also the remaster of Amalur but that's a lesser budget bracket if we're going by "AAA" here and it also has similar issues on console.

    On the other hand Death Stranding while it doesn't have the most expansive options seems like it got ported over really well. :)

    Can't say much about ray tracing but I am curious to see what it can be used for with the new hardware and faster performance potential instead of reflections and shadowing plus further work on NVIDIA's side on more features.
    (Current implementations do look nice but it'd also be the first thing to disable due to the performance cost so once that issue gets addressed that's going to be very interesting to see how it ends up utilized.)


    EDIT: Windows 10 2104 or whatever the next version will be (~May-April 2021) being where D3D12_2 / DirectX 12 Ultimate lands and then driver support and SDK's on this and driver support is going to be a thing as well I expect.

    Would be nice with quicker adaption between XBox Series X and PC here and maybe that will happen but we'll see.

    Was hoping 20H2 / 2009 would have that already but it's not like five - six months is going to change things that notably with the lengthy game development time anyway.


    But that's for however the PC gaming landscape will look like in a year or two perhaps more, until then a 50% GPU performance increase or more is pretty impressive on it's own and likely even more for the popular GPU models like the 1060 and on AMD's side the Polaris 500 series. :)

    Jump from that to a 3070 or the equal of a 2080 Ti performance wise as NVIDIA claims is pretty big even without all the features that will be supported once these start getting utilized for PC gaming too giving further potential performance or visual benefits and more possibly on top of that.

    DLSS is a very commonly discussed feature too now but that's down to game and game engine adaption and also how many upcoming games utilize or update to the newest 2.0+ versions of it.
    (Substantial performance gain though, no wonder it's so discussed now even with some drawbacks like the reliance on think it was motion vectors and how some effects might lack these.)


    EDIT: Ah I'm not too good at this.

    2080Ti potential performance sans 3 GB of VRAM at roughly half the cost that's big.
    Enthusiast forums and communities like these might see the 3080 as more of a thing though and then for a small fastest GPU available and price isn't as big of a concern there's the 3090 option. :D

    Plus the future API compatibility and support adding on what Turing already had too however that turns out but it's there. :)


    EDIT: And for AMD something went wrong with Vega and AMD appears to have made a few responsible people leave possibly also on the Radeon Technology Group and the regrouping and changes led to I believe it's called CDNA with RDNA geared more on gaming. (Well it's vague in as far as actual details go other than something happened here that isn't fan speculation or theories.)

    RDNA1 as perhaps a first show of what RDNA can do but that's just speculative until some more details are out on what RDNA2 does and also how it competes with NVIDIA from Pascal, Turing and Ampere.
    (Hardware wise well I like it, software wise I can't recommend it. Getting better at least so that's nice to see.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
    PrMinisterGR likes this.
  12. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,672
    Likes Received:
    2,654
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Will AIBs release branded FE cards?
    I havent seen any on the main UK sites that have a large variety of AIB card versions.
     
  13. wrathloki

    wrathloki Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    318
    GPU:
    EVGA 3080
    The FE is a branded card, Nvidia branded. So nope.
     
  14. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,672
    Likes Received:
    2,654
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    My 1080Ti FE was branded by MSI:
     
  15. DannyD

    DannyD Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    3,730
    GPU:
    evga 2060
    Yup, FE is nvidia only.
     

  16. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,672
    Likes Received:
    2,654
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
  17. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    16,996
    Likes Received:
    7,337
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    [​IMG]
     
    PrMinisterGR and JonasBeckman like this.
  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    16,996
    Likes Received:
    7,337
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    no
     
  19. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    452
    GPU:
    AMD 5700XT AE
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,201
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    GPU:
    EVGA RTX 3080

Share This Page