Apple has removed Fortnite from its App Store

I am with Epic on this one I am afraid

Let me be clear this is two very rich corporations arguing about who is going to make the most money but the big difference here is that if Epic wins and sets a precedent then their actions could potentially help out smaller developers who maybe do not have the money to keep giving Apple / Google 30% of every sale they make. Where as if Apple / Google wins then nothing changes.

Now yes I get that that sounds like I've drunk the Epic cool aid. That isn;t the case I get that Epic doesn't really care about the small time developer that end of the day all they care about is the money in their bank account but the potential for them winning in this situation could very well go on to benefit smaller developers.

Don't get me wrong how Epic are going about it is truly disgusting, although using Apple's own advert against them is a stroke of genius, but essentially weaponizing their player base against Google and Apple is unacceptable but in the long run I don't really care who wins on this one. I don't play Fortnite and haven't bought an app for my phone for over 3 maybe even 4 years but their is always a certain level of joy in watching two morally bankrupt, money grubbing companies who wouldn't p*ss on you if you were on fire, possibly even if you paid them, trying to convince everyone that their moral opinion is the right one.

 

With their playerbase, Epic is directly talking to the current and next generation of Apple product consumers, hitting where the money's at. Now I have no idea what it would take to make Apple move toward a more open direction regarding access to their mobile userbase, but if that's it i don't mind.

Mid 2020, Apple is currently bigger than Australia, Spain, Mexico, Indonesia, The Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Switzerland.

You keep the monopoly going on a market with 23% yearly growth, Apple might be bigger than US governement before the mid-century? Haven't done the math but we have the bigger picture, that's scary dominating corporation on which governement have no control.

Companies bigger than governements, able to bend them to their will, putting every democracy against each other in a tax evasion war, would break our democracies.
It actually already started with US governement bending its tax regulation to make Apple import back Europe located revenue to the U.S. That's less public funding for the people.


https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/mobile-marketing-market#:~:text=The global mobile marketing market size was estimated at USD,USD 79.8 billion in 2020.&text=The global mobile marketing market is expected to grow at,USD 337.8 billion by 2027.

https://www.investopedia.com/news/apple-now-bigger-these-5-things/

https://money.cnn.com/2017/12/27/technology/apple-cash-tax-reform/index.html

 

It's Apple blocked Fornite, not Epic pulled it from App Store.

Also Telegram filed complaint against Apple into EU on same issue.

 

EULA is not the law.

 

Exactly, and that is my point. The problem is oftentimes many people think it is; it has been thrown out of court on many an occasion. It wouldn't hurt for there to be some form of an electronics software act(s) passed into law addressing many things.

 

Also don't forget the real reason: if Epic win, Epic will be able to sell game on Android and Apple without giving money to anyone... they don't care about player (a bit like steam, but less worse lol).

 

That's not the real reason - the real reason is, Epic wanted to have lootboxes and their own currency being sold via someone elses store.

Not on.

 

Love how things come full circle over time. Apple says IBM is too large and does not allow smaller companies to rise up. Apple is now what they said about IBM. Google is in the same boat. Epic is playing that same exact game but from a different angle.

Weaponizing the player base, nothing new. Makes me laugh, Steam has done this and the player base now goes out of their way to defend Steam without Steam needing to lift a finger. So if anything is f'd up, it is the player base who is morally bankrupt along with the corporations. Epic is just the newest kid on the block using the same tactics that all the big boys used before them. There is no winning; only those sitting at the table and those on the way out. Epic is just jockeying for a seat at the table.

 

"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

-Harvey Dent-

 

Sweeney really has a lot of time to come up with plans and schemes to tackle every percentage he has to pay to somebody else for using their environment / eco system / is in competition with them.

Still have to wait for Apple, Google, Steam or Epic to focus on good games again, before it's all about who gets more of the cake they just make more and more expensive / more tempting to spend money for players.

Best comment on that situation I've read: "This is a problem that only hurts the customer and none of the parties is innocent here."

 

Apparently, @Clouseau is seemingly the only one with a brain on this thread.

 

I get your point, but this is analogously like this:

Someone owns a fish market.
They sell stalls for people to sell their fish.
All transactions constitute part of the selling of stall, so, for each transaction, you give 30% to the fish market owner.
In return, they give you security, people to purchase your goods, cleaning and so forth - and even throw in support to make your stall better.

No rental charges. At all.

Now, Epic come along and say they want access to the fish market trade, but, do not like the terms and conditions being offered - and they also want to take more money than anyone else by selling their own private fish collection, without giving 30% to the market owner.

-That is literally what is going on.

Now, the only solution available to them is to get the law changed - and that opens a can of worms that no amount of fish would eat, regardless of what hook it's on.

Could ALL other fish traders now do what Epic is doing? The implication would be a monumental shift in power away from the fish market owner to the fish trader.
Should the market owner have the right to decide what their terms are?
Should the market owner have to right to refuse the sale of a stall to a trader?

Apple own their ecosystem, you want to change the terms? Good luck.

I would like to add that Apple do offer extremely good support, and some pretty good advice - as well as a community that is very pro-apple, and want the App store to be good...but if you want access to the store, you gotta pay your dues.

Google are the same.

 

I don't understand Epic sometimes because since they are calming that Apple and Google are Anti-consumer for not allowing other forms of payment options and they are the same way in my mind with Timed PC exclusives for not allowing the consumer to choose his/her platform of choice for certain games they want to play and also calling Apple and Google monopolies when they are very close to that. So Pot calling the kettle black Epic? The only game that I am letting slide from this is Rocket League because Epic owns the studio that made the game so they can dictate what they can do with that IP.

 

He's right. it's ironic that Apple which famously used to attack IBM, and running that iconic "1984" ad is now basically the giant head on the screen.

 

Yes the market owner has the right to decide what their terms of service are but if there is really only one choice, is that really a choice? Companies that are too big have the ability to dictate the terms of the market; opposite of the consumer setting the tone. Apple was forced to accept right to repair. That does not suggest good customer support...no options. What about registering the iPhone as a media consumption device with telephonic capabilities? That was done so they could skirt the whole uniform power connector requirement. There is no other way to get anything on Apple devices except through the Apple Store; no choice.

There is not enough information in your example above. Is the fish market owner the only market owner in the local or immediate area? Like with Apple if there is no other choice...is it really a choice? People give up the right to choose all the time when there is no alternative.

EDIT: What about a "Donate" button within a app; for argument sake. The app is free to download and use but is not the "donate" button a violation of the terms of service agreement?

 

Well, you can consume the product in multiple variations and multiple devices - surely you think it is also not okay for a company to do a deal with a 'store' and cut out ALL other forms of playing the game?

It's the inverse of an exclusive, instead of locking out ALL other devices, they are purposefully locking out one particular 'store'...what are their reasons; I'll tell you:

Epic Games want to sell VBUCKS through fortnites' interface, and do not want to give Apple the 30% cut on top. https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/vbuckscard?sessionInvalidated=true

That is the long and short of it...they are trying to FORCE Apple to give them special dispensation because they are not happy with their cut.

Speaking figuratively again, Apple built the store with their bare hands, and they have the right to charge whatever they want to charge - considering Steve Jobs had to go cap-in-hand to Bill Gates, so as BG would buy million of Apple Shares, and producing MS Office for the Mac, and using that money, produced the iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes...I think they can do what they want...because if there was one person that did not want to go begging to Bill Gates, it was Steve MF'ing Jobs.



That guy just ooozed class, shame he's gone.

Anyway...Epic are just acting like petulant children right now, all because they cannot make enough money from selling their virtual currency to children...and what makes this very unpleasant, is they are (in part) using children as slaves to their vision...that's some Big Brother $hit right there people...

 

You think hundreds of stores on other platforms were not done with their own bare hands? But non of them force you to use them. You can install an alternative store or you can install without any store. Apple enforce you to use their own store, so they enforce you to use their app rivals and they enforce you to pay 30% tax for using their platform.

 

What does Steve Jobs have to do with this? Nothing. Apple is no longer that company. That company does not exist any longer. The current incarnation is under Tim Cook's leadership.

Epic may be acting childish but Apple are being thugs at the same time. Who cares that they built whatever with their hands one brick at a time. The game is free to play. Free, no sales price. All purchases are done in-game. When was the last time an ISP took a cut of the sales from in-game purchases. Microsoft should claim a percentage of sales generated by software running on the operating system that they built with their own hands. If the only way to offer a product to the Apple user base is through their App Store, there is no choice. The user base is held for ransom. If one is not willing to pay the ransom, no access is granted. That is their mobile business model. That is the issue. How Epic is acting or how the App Store was originally implemented is not.

Free-to-paly. No sales price equates to no 30% of sales. So after being charged zero the app is downloaded to the device. All the quality checks were performed beforehand. The sales transaction has now concluded. What the app does after that is the property of the developer. The store that sold the product has no rights to any sales generated by the software. The fact any company that claims they have a right to those sales is what is criminal. Like said before, when no choice is offered, no choice can be made/.. Steam, the games run on or through their servers. Bandwidth has a cost, so Steam or other similar launchers have an argument. Mobile does not. After the app is downloaded, the store sees no traffic. The 30% from the initial sale and ongoing developer program fees cover the update bandwidth used. This instance, Epic should prevail. In-game bandwidth has no wear and tare on Apple's servers. The simple fact that it did, is because of being forced. Epic may be greedy but Apple has proven on more than one occasion to be even more so. So greed has no basis in the argument even though it is the driving force behind the actions that has resulted in this outcome.