NVIDIA Ampere rumored to get four times more Ray-Tracing perf, no more GTX either

Using source that is clearly wrong does not make you tiny bit more right. Please, get your sources straight.

What did you not get from RTX Turing having 22% bigger SM over GTX Turing?
GTX Turing: INT32 + FP32 + FP16 + Cache + I/O + ...
RTX Turing: INT32 + FP32 + Tensors + RT Cores + Cache + I/O + ...

Please take note that 22% larger area for adding Tensors and RT is after removal of FP16 area. Please note also, that Tensor core is actually simple logic (much lower transistor cost per unit), not RT.

Then again. Very article you used stated that entire RTX based logic takes 1.95 mm² per SM and that large quantity of tensors take 1.25 mm² from that.
So, you cut away FP16, its I/O and stuff, have like 0.9x of base SM size, add Tensors, RT, their I/O and end up with 1.22x of base SM size.
Which would mean (1.22 - 0.9) / 1.22 = 0.2623 = 26.23% of logic is used for Tensors + RT and their I/O.
From that 64% is Tensor related and 36% is RT related. Which would mean 9.44% of logic being left for RT in their approximation.
That is in out of thin air approximation of FP16 size being 10% of SM.

I explore limit situation of FP16 taking no space for you before you slip to something more inadequate.
(1.22 - 1) / 1.22 = 18% of entire RTX Turing's SM logic would be for Tensors + RT + their I/O. from that 36% share article leaves for RT would be 6.5% of area which is quite more than 4% you liked to quote.

Depending on FP16 part size that has been removed, and accuracy of those 64% for Tensors, you can easily slip to borderline of RT taking 15% of SM. Please understand that I stated, that if anything, RT takes less than 15% of SM.

 

Your math is faulty and disregards countless factors just to claim RT and Tensor are the only things that can possibly affect size in Turing vs Pascal.

Its not like Turing doesn't have schedulers, increased cache, additional serdes, and gates in order to thoroughly power gate the additional logic.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1131239-lets-compare-turing-vs-pascal-dies/

 

Can you start being respectful and use quote or @<name>?
As I wrote, logic included. But that logic is still related to removed and added parts. When FP16 has been removed, it went out with its I/O.
Same way as I wrote that it includes RT/Tensor I/O in addition.

Now, lets get back to point. You dragged in comparison of GTX vs. RTX Turings with same cache size within SM. That did not work well, so you want to strawman to GTX Pascal comparison with RTX Turing and wastly increase error of approximation.
Not playing your game way you want to play.

So, lets say RTX cores and their related I/O took just 4% of RTX Turing's SM. Then expectation of having 4 times as many RT cores (or performance) would be quite realistic.
And while I did entertain that idea, you want to argue against Denial who thinks quite opposite. (Not that I do not respect your opinion @Denial . I want them to at least double RT perf and believe it is doable.)

In other words, reason why you wrote post about me without me is to say this:

And if lucky, get away without me replying. Writing only to voice disagreement regardless of content, logic, opinion on topic, ... .

You do it quite often. Please stop. You do not want people to give you same treatment.

 

I don't personally care,

oh look, did it again.

 

I am hoping for decent pricing on either the 3070 or the 3060 either card will be a huge upgrade from a 1070. I do have alot of time before the new GPUs come out any way. I have to upgrade my system first.

 

I just don't think a company with 84% of the discrete graphics card market spends too much time worrying about AMD's future lackluster release.

Games with RTX Support:

• Atomic Heart
• Battlefield V
• Boundary
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019)
• Control
• Convallaria
• Cyberpunk 2077
• Deliver Us The Moon: Fortuna
• DOOM Eternal
• Dying Light 2
• Enlisted
• F.I.S.T.
• Justice
• JX3
• MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries
• Metro Exodus
• Minecraft
• Project DH
• Project X
• Quake II
• Ring of Elysium
• Shadow of the Tomb Raider
• SYNCED: Off-Planet
• Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2
• Watch Dogs Legion
• Wolfenstein: Youngblood
• Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

Games with DLSS Support:

• Ark: Survival Evolved
• Anthem
• Atomic Heart
• Battlefield V
• Deliver Us The Moon: Fortuna
• Dauntless
• Final Fantasy 15
• Fractured Lands
• Hitman 2
• Islands of Nyne
• Justice
• JX3
• Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries
• Metro Exodus
• Monster Hunter World
• PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds
• Remnant: From the Ashes
• Serious Sam 4: Planet Badass
• Shadow of the Tomb Raider
• The Forge Arena
• We Happy Few
• Darksiders III
• Deliver Us The Moon: Fortuna
• Fear the Wolves
• Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice
• KINETIK
• Outpost Zero
• Overkill’s The Walking Dead
• SCUM
• Stormdivers
• Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2

I could say a lot more but i don't like arguing with stupid.

 

Cross platform releases to come means more DXR incoming

 

hope it not far more expensive than what it can provide. For playing game, the hardware cost - nearly 50$/month nowaday is ridiculous and I will pay for AMD rather than Nvdia and I dont care about the new techniqe and functions as long as the supported game is still playable.
We use it for game - not for coin mining or training AI --- bla bla bla.... so price is the most sensitive concern.

 

I'll be the first to tell you that DLSS/RTX are both great technologies, they are definitely the future and I welcome them.. but the list is horrible:

Atomic Heart isn't out yet and might be cancelled
Convallaria Isn't out yet
Cyberpunk isn't out yet
Enlisted isn't out yet
FIST isn't out yet
Project DH isn't out yet
Project X isn't out yet.
Serious Sam 4: Planet Badass - Not out yet
SYNCED: Off-Planet isn't out yet.
Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 isn't out yet.
Watch Dogs Legion isn't out yet.
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII isn't out yet.

What's worse is that on top of all these you mentioned Nvidia also announced:

Ark: Survival Evolved - Never got RTX/DLSS
Assetto Corsa Competizione - Never got RTX/DLSS
In Death - Never got RTX/DLSS
Dauntless - Never got RTX/DLSS
The Forge Arena - Never got RTX/DLSS (may not even be actively developed)
Fractured Lands - Never got RTX/DLSS
Islands of Nyne - Never got RTX/DLSS
Hitman 2 - Never got RTX/DLSS
PlayerUnknown’s BattleGrounds - Never got RTX/DLSS
Remnant from the Ashes - Never got RTX/DLSS
Ring of Elysium never got an RTX patch
We Happy Few - Never got RTX/DLSS
Fear the Wolves - Never got RTX/DLSS
Hellblade - Never got RTX/DLSS
KINETIK - Never got RTX/DLSS
Outpost Zero - Never got RTX/DLSS
Walking Dead - Never got RTX/DLSS
SCUM - Never got RTX/DLSS
Stormdivers - Never got RTX/DLSS

Most of the games here Nvidia listed when they first announced RTX cards.. now two years later 85% of the list is either games that are still not out, cancelled or are out but don't have either DLSS/RT in them at all.

In my opinion it's 100% false advertising.

Edit: I didn't even look through your DLSS list but a bunch in there are the same way, I added them.

Also before anyone comments that "it's coming" I couldn't care less. You shouldn't be able to announce a card, list a bunch of games that are coming out between now and 2035 and say "LOOK AT ALL THESE GREAT GAMES THAT YOU WILL BENEFIT IN IF YOU BUY THIS CARD"

It's 100% misleading and false advertising, especially when Nvidia makes it sound like some of these games are playable on their RTX website. Might as well just list sequels for every game just in case they'll be supported too. Not like it matters if you're wrong and the game gets cancelled because someone will use it for a forum argument anyway.

 

If nvidia was developing the games? Sure, 100% false advertising. But they can't force developers to follow through with what the developer/publisher promised. Therefore, it's not even remotely false advertising on nvidias part, if anything, it'd be on the developer/publishers part.

Nvidia didn't randomly make up what developers/publishers told them they were going to do.

It'd be like going to a technology event where whatever the event was said that Intel would have a booth at, and indeed, Intel said they would. Event day, Intel is nowhere to be seen, and no word from them, ever, about if they are late, why they couldn't come, etc. And you'd be mad at the...people who are running the event...for intel not doing their part.........that's a bunch of nonsense.

 

Well said.


Nv had to make some bs list so they could justify the price and premium for it..

I called bs on this the moment they started to build up the list.. was similar with physx back then.


That said, i just want a normal priced gpu like in the past.

 

Borderline ignorant or just a fanboy? We already have one solid example based on Intel. If AMD will release a solid performer for next-generation, Nvidia won't be able to get away with their massive price increase that they have pulled off on the last-gen.

The result - consumer benefit.

 

Disagree on a few different levels.

For the analogy, it would be more like paying $1200 for a technology event where the organizer promised 50+ companies were showing up, had neat little pictures, examples and videos, they even talked about others like you'd be able to get hands on experience with it at the event. You show up and there's like 7 companies. You ask the organizer "hey what's going on, where is everyone?" and they go "oh sorry, those guys aren't here yet but if you stay for another 3 years, you might see some of them" Then I'm mad at them because I didn't need to buy this $1200 ticket now, I could have bought it in 3 years when it was $500 in the form of a midrange 3000 series with the same capability (to tie in the anology)

Look if it was a couple games I'd get it - I'd say things happen, Nvidia couldn't have predicted this, but it's literally 30+ titles. Some of these games have predicted launch dates of 2021 and 2022 but Nvidia announced them back in 2018 like they were going to be playable on current gen RTX cards. On their website they list games on the RTX page, some of which are in development hell (Atomic Heart and Dying Light 2) but they make it sound like you can play these titles now:

Dying Light 2:

Let me arm myself with an RTX card and plunge into a game that doesn't exist.


Atomic Heart:

Unless DLSS can reconstruct a game out of thin air, I'm not going to be able to examine anything.

Minecraft was also egregious, before it launched it read like the game was totally playable - it even said "Game On!" for a year and a half. The beta patch launched like a month ago.

_

I don't care for the practice and in my opinion it is false advertising. I get that it's not the same as Nvidia developing the titles so maybe it's slightly less removed - but there is no way Nvidia sat there in 2018 and didn't know 85% or more of the games they were showing as marketing for the card weren't going to come out in the lifetime of the card. Also in the case of games implementing DLSS I'd 100% say it's Nvidias fault - since even they claimed they were the bottleneck for DLSS and had to redevelop the entire technology to make it more generalized and easier to implement. Which is great for us - but when they promise 20+ titles with it and like 4 launch and the rest are in limbo because of their screw up, yah. That's not to mention DLSS2X which literally just never launched.

 

Virgin blood? souls? Ah hell....guess I won't be buying a new NVidia card.....ever.... I mean, seriously, where is anyone going to find virgin blood, much less souls.....

And good luck playing it.... Even the 2080Ti struggled like hell to run it.... Who cares about Crysis..... Can it run Minecraft RTX should be the new meme....

For anyone that hasn't seen it....

 

In a way the prices for GPUs make sense, you buy a Motherboard, VRAM and a GPU.

But i agree, it all gotten a bit out of hand the past years.

 

Hopefully a massive step forward any remember tessellation when it first came out the first cards that supported were terrible second gen was a massive step forward now it’s just the norm with little impact.

 

Speaking about Ray-Tracing, Take a gander on this, Many of you probably are aware of it but nontheless, looks very promising:

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-traversal-coprocessor-rtx-3090-gpu/

 

I still to see ray-tracing in action for myself, i'm sure my eyes are gonna melt with some of the new games, can't wait!

 

I applaud Nvidia throwing the first salvo, but unlike TNT, I don't care about pricing because NONE of the RTX solutions are worth the entrance price for the poor performance regarding RT.

Let's see if this year we can have 4K with RT @ 60 FPS, then we consumers should vote with our wallets.