DOOM Eternal

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by WhiteLightning, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. How are we gonna improve DOOM? Let's add a lot of platforming! Doom fans love to jump around, right?
     
  2. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,958
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    GPU:
    Zotac 4090 Extreme
    RIP megatextures :(
     
  3. GiveMe

    GiveMe Active Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    25
    GPU:
    RTX 3080 Trinity OC
    thank god no megatextures :eek:
     
    angelgraves13 likes this.
  4. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,958
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    GPU:
    Zotac 4090 Extreme
    You can force it through a console command, and if you go on YouTube, you can find guys playing Doom nightmare settings on a 7970 GHz 3GB card with Vulkan.
     

  5. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    25,349
    Likes Received:
    12,754
    GPU:
    XFX RX6800XT 16GB
    I had 280X 3gb at the time and could not even use Ultra textures let alone nightmare. Trust me, not possible.
     
  6. Party Poison

    Party Poison Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    809
    GPU:
    Rtx 4090
    I find it odd now that Doom has a overworld hub, Open free roam levels and skill selection like Rage 2.

    I'd rather it be a linear map and just keep the flow going, There is a lot of cutscenes now and Doomguy just stands silent.

    If you die, you drop items that you have to collect again

    Also its very odd to see the Doomguy swinging around like a gymnast lol
     
    ShadowDuke likes this.
  7. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,958
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    GPU:
    Zotac 4090 Extreme
    Was that with OpenGL or Vulkan? Here's a YouTube video of a guy playing Doom on a 280x with ultra quality:

     
  8. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,401
    Likes Received:
    325
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 3080 12GB
    Disclaimer

    Some of this post will most likely offend you profoundly if you happen to have loved DOOM 2016, and despite the fact that reading this line should be enough for you to ignore the rest of the post; you'll probably be curious enough to read until I start 'bashing' it. But know ahead of time that I won't debate any of my opinions with you. My mind has been set on DOOM 2016 since the past 3 years and here I'm simply sharing my thoughts about what I've seen of DOOM Eternal while making a come back on what made me hate DOOM 2016.

    =======


    So looking at what I've seen so far in an objective and subjective way... I can see some improvements from that Walkthrough video linked a few posts above (among other previews too), compared to DOOM 2016.

    - The environments seem to be larger, but more importantly, they look a LOT better and have a more visual / art variety to them. In DOOM 2016, the map assets and themes were pretty much confined by three main ones: Indoor / Industrial, Outdoors / Mars surface with some infrastructure, and the "Hell" levels. It was visually very repetitive and only offered some relief once we finally got to Hell, but the Hell levels themselves - while being unique compared to the rest of the game - didn't quite offer that much variation. But DOOM Eternal's maps have a lot more polish in visuals. I'm just glad that they worked on those maps for their variations in not just layout but appearance. The game events occurs on Earth, after all.

    - The enemies seem to have more unique animations to them (including death / 'reaction' animations), and the animations themselves are pretty good. I like how the Revenant animates, moves and attacks. If players choose to go for the 'sync kills' and kill combos to get their Health and Ammo then at least they'll probably get to see more animations (but of course it's a finite number so at some point you'll just do it out of necessity rather than out of curiosity).

    - Enemy models looks significantly better and more detailed, the polygon count has probably been improved a lot (at least for some of them).

    - As crazy as it sounds, and I'm still checking around to be sure of this but... it appears that the A.I. is better in this one. Obviously not for all enemy types, but I'm seeing a lot more motion from enemies that would have otherwise pretty much stood still or barely strafed a bit in the 2016 game (such as the zombie sergeants / 'shotgun zombies' / "Possessed" ones as they were renamed for the new games). The Hell Knight as well (including from what I've seen in other videos) seem to be traversing the environment just as efficiently as you can do yourself. It wasn't always the case in DOOM 2016 where in some locations you could see them constantly using the same platforms or environmental structures for climbing or jumping; the invisible-to-the-eyes A.I. 'triggers' that must have been placed about in the maps were not that numerous, so you could circle-strafe around and let them chase you and see where they would constantly want to go to catch up on you. So this does seem to have been worked on.

    But...

    I'm also seeing things I don't care about, nor like (some of this will seem rude, or harsh; and I don't care):

    - There's quests, I don't give a _S_ about quests in a DOOM game.
    - A "ship" / space hub in a DOOM game. Did they just play Mass Effect prior to working on this sequel? Not sure what that thing is doing in a DOOM game, but ok. Doom Guy has a space station now.
    - There's an absolutely incomprehensible excessive amount of platforming. It literally looks more like a Super Mario Bros game mechanics-wise for traversing environments than anything else. I'm not even joking with this comparison.
    - The way the player moves about in such environments makes moving about way too frantic and all over the place. Jumping, 'dashing' in mid-air, double jumps, grabbing onto walls Tomb Raider style, jumping off of wall surfaces... jumping, dashing, jumping... JESUS CHRIST man can you just stand still for ONE second? I swear to God, jump ONE more time. I dare you to try it. Now. Just one more jump.
    - Visually-speaking, the fights look awkward due exactly because enemies will get 'stunned', stop moving and idiotically start glowing orange / blue to indicate to the player that they're 'open' and vulnerable for a melee kill animation. If enough enemies are damaged to that extent during a hectic fight you end up looking at a battle field with half the enemies glowing and staying in place like idiots while the other half try to get a hit on you. The actual real DOOM games I play have enemies everywhere that will simply never stop trying to kill you, nor should YOU stop trying to kill them either.
    - The point above also brings another element that I absolutely hated in DOOM 2016, the fact that actually doing those melee / sync-kills on a regular basis (which the game absolutely does fully embrace and encourage you to do; in fact it IS the main gimmick of this new take on "modern" DOOM games) is creates a very unpleasant feel of constant interruption or slow down of the 'flow' of combat. You have perhaps some fun fighting said enemy and moving but.... WAIT... wait, you need ammo, go to that enemy first and perform that kill animation; ok, done? Good, ok now GO! Rinse and repeat, shoot, enemy stunned, approach, kill animation, flow interruption, grab ammo, resume. Another enemy, repeat the process. I hated it with all my heart. I know I would still hate it in this one.
    - Just as it was in DOOM 2016 (and of course I didn't expect any better or different in this one), there's Armor and Weapon upgrades. I don't give two rat's arse about that kinda thing in a DOOM game. I ain't playing _F_'ing DOOM to get myself into having to choose and spend 'skill points' on anything.

    There might be other things that I noticed but I'm not thinking about typing here right now. It's most likely related to the actual gameplay mechanics overall if anything (there's also the checkpoint save system which I also hated in the first one, and many other little things that piled-up in the end into a very miserable gaming experience).

    There's also an 'unknown' to all this. In DOOM 2016, another aspect of the game I abhorred was the whole gameplay concept and mechanic of "Enemy Waves Rooms", or more commonly known as simply "Horde Mode" rooms. Where you would enter a 'room', a small section of a map, it would then lock you inside said confined environment, and enemies would start spawning in scripted waves of specific types and numbers. It would last until the last, most difficult wave, and once over with magically the room's exit point unlocks and you can finally proceed out of it. You'd then "explore" a bit until you would inevitably get to another such horde mode room where the gameplay consist of the same damn repetitive take on "DOOM combat". It's LITERALLY like playing something like Killing Floor, or the multi-player of Mass Effect 3. But put that in a DOOM game. That's where we're at with DOOM (well, with the 2016 one). However, so far from what I've seen of DOOM Eternal it doesn't seem like those horde mode rooms actually exist. I haven't seen a clear example of just one, yet. There may be a few still, and I do suspect that they left some of those elements from the first game into the sequel, which might well include those rooms again.

    It is pretty clear anyway that I will absolutely skip this game. At least DOOM 2016 did have a map editor (Snapmap I think it was called) and I have seen videos of custom maps and game modes that alleviated a lot of my original disappointments with the game (it still didn't incite me to play it more, even though I did try a few of those custom maps here and there). But DOOM Eternal apparently plain and simple left that editor behind and this time won't be making a come back, at least not at launch. So it's definitely going to be a case of 'you better like the game or else'.

    Then again I know, you're probably reading this and think: "This guy doesn't have taste". Here's the thing, I'm a 90s kid. I grew my appreciation of the FPS genre with the likes of the original DOOM, DOOM 2, Final DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood and Shadow Warrior. Those games were of 'my time' as I grew up myself. They marked me forever. Today, when I feel like playing DOOM I fire up Brutal DOOM mods and have an absolute blast of non-stop, relentless blissful gameplay. I don't need to stop at enemies to do some acrobatic kills, I don't need a cutscene for a "story", I don't need to stop by in my ship to upgrade my armor, I don't look around for a weapon upgrade, and I sure as hell don't grab ledges or walls or dash forward like a Sonic wannabe. If THAT stuff is apparently a necessary evil to bring the DOOM franchise into modern times then yes, I agree, this stuff just ain't part of my time anymore. It's for the newer generation in the larger part. If you happen to also have been a fan of the original DOOM and Build engine FPS games of the 90s and STILL genuinely manage to love DOOM 2016 and can't wait for Eternal then let's put it this way: To each their own, indeed.

    I know I'm apparently part of a minority here about DOOM 2016 anyway. I didn't make such a list as a thread here, but for the records DOOM 2016 ended up being one of my personal biggest disappointment in my own gaming history (not just in recent years, but overall). I can't explain the hype I had when it was first announced that DOOM would finally make a come back. Got the game on launch day and, to this very day as I type this, still couldn't bring myself to finish it. I 'forced' myself to the first parts of the Hell levels and I couldn't take it anymore, left it behind, uninstalled and voila. Here I am today watching those videos of Eternal and only seeing a very few positive elements that all get buried under a pile of modern FPS gaming nonsense. At least we have Indie devs out there making us games like Iron Maiden and Dusk (and a couple more in the same veins). I can appreciate those, instead. And if I ever want to play a DOOM game, then I'll actually play a DOOM game.

    If anyone got offended by any of my personal opinions here about a game that's inexplicably loved all around then sorry, not sure what to tell you.
     
    Yxskaft and AsiJu like this.
  9. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,140
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    GPU:
    GTX 1080 Ti
    And then run out of vram when 4gb isn't enough.
     
  10. Party Poison

    Party Poison Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    809
    GPU:
    Rtx 4090
    You can also collect demon themed guitars for the walls of the ship.
     
    Duke Nil likes this.

  11. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    25,349
    Likes Received:
    12,754
    GPU:
    XFX RX6800XT 16GB
    Yeah, it runs fine at the start but then stuttering starts when vram is slowly filled. 3gb = medium/high, vulkan -ogl makes no difference really.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  12. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,811
    Likes Received:
    3,369
    GPU:
    KFA2 4070Ti EXG.v2
    Gave you a like for being honest, heh. I agree with majority of your criticism personally, or at least see your point.

    I'm a 90s shooter guy as well but I liked the new Doom, or DOOM, any way. Granted, not because of Glory Kills and all that jazz, more like despite of them.
    While I don't particularly dislike them as such, they do feel unnecessary in a Doom game.

    The Gore Nests indeed felt like artificial arena fights, whereas og Doom had all the enemies in place when you start a level and all of them may move and look for you at all times (unless specifically blocked from doing so in level properties).
    As teleporting enemies were my main gripe with Doom 3 I really hoped iD would go more old school here.

    As for the platforming, well it seems to be fluid at least and similarity to Mario seems to be intentional. Remains to be seen how it works in practice.
    What I do like about player movement is you're able to traverse vertically as fluidly as you are horizontally if that makes sense, based on the video.

    The hub does perhaps feel a bit out of place but it may work nicely too. As long as the game is not in any way... "open world".

    I am regardless quite hyped for DOOM Eternal and will surely buy it and more than likely like it, as I did 2016 DOOM.
    I understand the devs wanting to make up something new and I suppose you must make a few concessions here and there.

    Also I'm a pretty simple guy FPS-wise so if the core combat / gunplay is satisfying, then I'm willing to accept a few shortcomings elsewhere.
    Case in point I really like RAGE 2.
     
  13. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,509
    Likes Received:
    2,181
    GPU:
    Gigabyte OC 3070
    Sadly, with the advancement of technology... most modern engines can't support placing enemies in the level, and having them wait for the player to arrive.
    Most teleport enemies in all the time as you progress. A lot do this behind the scenes, out of the view of the player, making it appear that enemies were there the entire time, but in actuality they spawned in only a few seconds before the player entered the area.
     
  14. Party Poison

    Party Poison Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    809
    GPU:
    Rtx 4090

    I mean, Im just saying what I got to see and my opinion of it and Zenoth just gave his opinion too.

    Personal opinion = Crybabies now?

    Not everyone is going to want the same thing from the sequel. What use is the thread if people can't discuss it without being " crybabies "
     
  15. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,564
    Likes Received:
    2,961
    GPU:
    XFX 7900XTX M'310
    I thought they changed up the combat from what I heard though with the games fast pace I expect just shooting still works but I heard how they for example added AoE variants to enemy attacks if the player tries to get close (Super-shotgun for example.) though a grenade could temporarily stun allowing a opportunity to close in either for another weapon attack or using the chainsaw I presume works the same. (Open preset, receive gifts. :) )

    The platforming looked a bit odd for a DOOM game though with swings and climbing and the double jump various traps and collectibles and secrets but I guess they're varying things up a bit even if it's going a bit Turok or Tomb Raider or how to compare.
    (Sure there's the Quake way of kiss ass goodbye and aim rocket launcher down and hope you land near a health pickup but this is a bit more involved than boosting via high explosives. :p )

    EDIT: I like the pain skins of sort coming back too instead of just the finisher or gib kills.

    [​IMG]

    Wounds and visible damage and such, hard to find a really good image but from bullets to burns and such although with the same fast pace it's kinda hard to notice unless they add a DOOM Marine's little selfie stick camera mode for photo mode opportunities or something. :p
     

  16. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,837
    Likes Received:
    7,596
    GPU:
    ASUS 3060 OC 12GB
    Looks like a Bethesda.net account is required for the Steam release of the game.......
     
  17. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Guest

    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    627
    GPU:
    evga 8800gts
    of course.
     
  18. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    17,564
    Likes Received:
    2,961
    GPU:
    XFX 7900XTX M'310
    Yeah it's used for the online unlocks and other social stuff far as I've seen, guessing the (MP?) boosters and such go via that too plus I expect the usual challenge and reward hook and events just like Rage 2 or Wolfenstein Youngblood.

    EDIT: There's that image again.

    [​IMG]
    (From: https://www.resetera.com/threads/doom-eternal-previews.165951/page-3#post-28440436 )

    Just what *everybody* wanted to see in the game, Manky, totally naked.

    EDIT: I do like the less goofy design over D2016 though even if he's halfway to Pinky territory. :p
    (Well the D2 variant at least not the cyberchewer in D3)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  19. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    3,003
    GPU:
    XFX Black 6950XT
    I still haven´t finished Doom but it think it´s a great game, with good and bad things, like every other game but on one thing i completely agree with you, the glory kills are an awful mechanic that ruins the pace of the game!!! There´s nothing worse than fighting our way though several enemies and then have the game paused so we can see a canned animation for the 1000 time so we can "win" some wealth or ammo. It´s so infuriating and even worse are the enemies simply waiting for us to finish the animation instead of attacking us... And this mechanic sucks in any game that uses it, an example is Sekiro that also uses something similar and were the game also pauses when executing the move... Why do games need to resort to silly stuff like this?...

    And don´t worry about the possible backlash about your opinion of the game, it can´t be worse than when i wrote about Witcher 3 being nothing special, just a good game... Good thing we have different tastes otherwise gaming would be very boring...

    Really??? I hate this kind of stuff of needing an account on top of Steam!!! What´s the point of something like Steam then??? The need of multiple accounts just to play some games is a trend that needs to die!!!
     
  20. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Guest

    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    627
    GPU:
    evga 8800gts
    because they want to make it pita to use steam so you give them you $$$ directly.

    id maybe bethesda can f off personaly.
     
    fantaskarsef likes this.

Share This Page