The truth about PRE-RENDERING 0?

Alright. I guess I'll just roll with it for now. So far the 59.993Hz cap is working fine for all of the games I play except very few. Splinter Cell Blacklist and Shadow of Mordor both have their in game V-sync broken by a cap under 60.000Hz, while all of my UWP/MS store games (Forza Apex, Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4 and RotTR) behave worse with the 59.993Hz cap than with a straight up 60.000Hz cap.

Those few oddities aside, I had a very enjoyable Divinity play session with my buddy last night at the 59.993Hz cap. All of this is at MPRF 1, by the way. Thanks again.

 

For games that have weird in-game vsync behavior, disabling in-game vsync and forcing it in the nvidia panel might give better results.

 

Sadly even that doesn't always fix vsync issues. GR:Wildlands has some strange acting vsync. If enabled ingame, random fps drops occur - disabled, no random drops. Disabling ingame vsync and enabling it through driver still results in no vsync at all. I used to play using borderless mode and a 79fps limit through nvinspector. That way I wouldn't have any random drops but instead had noticeably higher input lag. Since I recently started using RTSS I'm going to test the game with a 79.992 cap. Don't know if it's going to help in this case as vsync apparently isn't going to work and playing with vertical lines on the screen isn't an option. I guess borderless + RTSS cap is still better than borderless + inspector cap.

 

I play that game too and using borderlessgaming software+rtss cap and no vsync ingame, causes no tearing and smooth gameplay

 

May I ask why you're using Borderless Gaming on a game that supports borderless mode out the box without the usage of additional programs?

 

because Ubisoft features are always worse, and this works flawlessly

 

Understandable
But in general if the engine supports borderless mode by default then why would one use an external program to do the same thing? Is there any real benefit in doing so?

 

Yeah, it is mostly Ubi games where I have issues that even driver V-sync won't help with. I also cannot play with tearing so I'm looking at alternatives.

I'm also wondering what this does and if it helps versus the ingame borderless option.

 

G-Sync

It's amazing.

 

So I've heard. My close friend with an RX 480 has a freesync LG monitor but refuses to use freesync because it is "too complicated" so I have basically zero real life experience with variable sync technology. Also, my computer has always been hooked up to the biggest TV in the house so that everybody can enjoy movies and other stuff on it. The likelihood of getting a G-sync monitor, heck, even a monitor, is next to none for years. G-sync 4k TV in a year or 2 is probably the only way it would happen. Until then, it leaves me with messing with stuff like MPRF, DB & TB V-sync, dynamic resolution, RTSS and all that goodness.

 

I was looking for some information on this - about AMD having flip queue set to 1 globally - all over the internet. Is this verifiable with an AMD GPU - RadeonMod or checking some registry values?

I'm asking because I recently switched from a R9 390 to a GTX 1060 and am fiddling with the allowed pre-rendered frames. Unfortunately, while I had the AMD GPU I didn't check at all about the flip queue size.

However, one recent test/experiment with Witcher 3 made me think about this. By loading the same save game and doing the same things over time, I recorded the CPU utilization graph and followed CPU usage percentage on screen as well:

• with the R9 390 - I noted down or memorized the areas where the CPU would max out.
• when using the Nvidia GPU with default pre-rendered (3) I got 100% CPU utilization more often in areas in which I didn't with the AMD one.

With these observations, I was suspecting that at least for Witcher 3, AMD has limited the number of pre-rendered frames, because otherwise - CPU consumption should be about the same (not with a 30% difference when drawing same kind of frames <same in-game view>).

Of course, when setting pre-rendered frames to 1 on the Pascal GPU I got similar CPU usage graph in same areas as when I had the AMD R9 390.
This leads me to conclude that at least for Witcher 3, AMD used lower flip queue size - maybe 1 as you tell - but do you know for sure they have this globally set? Because, if so, I would also like to keep it globally on 1 now, with the Pascal, as I was quite satisfied with the performance and experience before.

Thanks a lot also for your other tips with frame limiting and using RTSS as a capper with vsync on to get smoother experience. At least in MSI AB frametime graphs I get a straight line when doing this, although latency wise I can't feel if it's better or just the same as without capping with RTSS - only MSI AB shows a different graph - with higher frame-times.

I think MSI AB still only takes one measurement per 1000ms - the default - with frametimes - so it is only an aproximate value or mean-value - which might be quite diffrent than a per-frame frametime graph.

 

To avoid potential problems with Ubisoft's coded with feet stuff but also in other non Ubisoft games.
I'm used to the bordeless gaming software in all games now, i woudn't step back ever to use ingame borderless feature,because never had problems using the software, while with in game borderless i had tearing without v-sync.
So don't care to try if ingame works as it should, as i'm 100% sure the software does its work.

 

What the hell is your friend talking about? Too complicated? The AMD driver enables FreeSync by default when it detects a FreeSync display. What's more complicated (and amounts to 4 button presses) is right-clicking the desktop, clicking on AMD Radeon Settings, clicking on the Display tab, then clicking on the AMD FreeSync toggle right below the respective display name.

All games (except, rarely, a handful with potential issues) then work with FreeSync, regardless of whether VSync is on or off (as that only controls 1) behavior above the FreeSync range and 2) Probably also below the range if there is no LFC and 3) timing compensation when within the range in order to prevent frames that are a bit off in timing from tearing).

 

The lag is there. Trying sim racing with Vsync on. Very bad delay in steering.

 

If i play with your method to Cap the FPS in RTSS with
Limit=119975
LimitDenominator=1000
and VSYNC On i still get weird Fps Spikes and not smooth Gameplay.

How do i do this if i play with a 120HZ Monitor without Gsync and cap the FPS in every game via Inspector to 1/2 Refresh Rate and RTSS to 60FPS?
Would appreciate an solution until i get a GSYNC Monitor, early next year.

 

If you get FPS spikes, then you don't have vsync enabled. With vsync, you can't get more than 120FPS. So double-check if you indeed have vsync on.

Don't use inspector for the cap. Use inspector to set vsync to "1/2", then use RTSS to cap to your actual refresh rate / 2 - 0.007.

 

I surly had Vsync in the Game ON, the FPS were in the range of 70-100, the gameplay was not smooth in this case, i capped the FPS to "119975" via RTSS Config because my real Refresh Rate is 119.982Hz - 0.07hz. 1/2 Refresh Rate and everything else was off. ONLY Vsync ON and the RTSS Trick were active this try. For me its not good.

What about the ingame Frame Limiter? Do i have to do something in this case?
So if i understand you right i have to set the FPS Cap in the RTSS Config with 1/2 Refresh Rate to "Limit=59984", even if i have a 120Hz Screen with the real Refresh Rate of 119.982Hz?

My graph with this method is the following:


One small FPS Drop with the 60FPS Cap and the Frametimer is going crazy up, which ends in a strong stutter. Any idea how i can prevent this? My PC is strong enough to hold 60FPS+ but i cant explain the Graph correctly.

 

That's not an FPS spike. I thought you meant you're playing at 120FPS and it went higher than 120FPS (that's what a spike is), which of course sounded weird since you can't get more than 120FPS if you did everything correctly.

Since you're not getting a solid 120FPS, the "low latency vsync" method won't work. This method should only be used if you can maintain the target FPS cap for the majority of the time. You need to constantly hit your cap. If you're not, you're not getting a latency reduction and you get stutter on top of that.

In your case, I would recommend using CRU to add a 90Hz mode, and then use this method with a 90FPS cap. Again, same thing: find out the true refresh you're getting, and cap to 0.007 lower. However, since you're introducing a new mode, you can just make sure to make that mode be 90.007Hz then then cap to exactly 90FPS. Make the 90.007Hz mode and then test it on vsynctester to make sure that's what you get. It doesn't have to be exactly 90.007. Anything between 90.006 and 90.012 will work just fine.

In-game limiters aren't accurate enough. Some may be, but usually they're not. RTSS is accurate enough. Since this method requires ~0.007FPS accuracy, you really need RTSS. For g-sync, in-game limiters are better since it's not important to be super-accurate, but for vsync, RTSS is better.

You can try though. In-game limiters usually only allow whole numbers, so if you change your refresh rate to be anywhere between XX.006Hz to XX.012Hz, then you can set the in-game limiter to XX FPS. But most limiters will produce either slight stutter or add input lag since they can't stay within 0.007FPS accuracy.

Yes. With 1/2 vsync, your effective refresh rate becomes half your actual refresh. So you need to cap "as if" you were running 60Hz.

However, it's better to just add another refresh rate. 90Hz is much better if you can maintain 90FPS.

Prior to getting a g-sync monitor, I had added a couple extra refresh rates just for doing this method: 80.007Hz, 90.007Hz and 100.007Hz. So basically I was trying to "emulate" a very coarse "poor man's g-sync"

Are you using 1/2 vsync in inspector? You need that. Note that setting that option might require a reboot. The driver has a bug where the option doesn't apply unless you reboot.

You need to check if you're actually using 1/2 vsync. Disable the frame cap (set 0FPS in RTSS). The game should stick to 60FPS. If it climbs higher, then 1/2 vsync is NOT active.

But again: 90.007Hz + 90FPS RTSS cap will give you a much better experience.

 

Then I was wrong, i apologize if i confused u with this.

It's ON for sure because without this Option i would have massive tearing in every game i would play on the PC. So i just put the 1/2 Refresh Rate option with the Vertical Sync Tear Control to Standard in every Game.

Before i updated to the newest version of Inspector i used the Frame Limiter V2 (60Fps) constantly, because it reduced the input lag even more.
This option seems to be gone or not working as it should anymore (correct me if im wrong), now im trying something new. The Gameplay with the Line Limit=59984 feels really good and very smooth, im just speaking about the Stutter when the Fps reaches 58-59. Im trying to find a solution how to avoid the stutter to be so agressive in the Gameplay. The timeframe the stutter happens seems to me very equal (as you can see from the graph). Maybe i should try a higher pre rendered frames? Im playing with 1 atm. (0=same results)
Will try the 90.007Hz Method aswell. But i can try this method only in Games i know i can hold the 90FPS, so the 60FPS Method is working better overall in the most Cases for me.

 

What if you tried Fast Sync instead? That should get rid of all the random stuttering you're getting.