Does Antialiasing / Transparency create input lag?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Fabulist, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. ESlik

    ESlik Guest

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  2. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    As the 1st answer already said, it can not create input lag.
    Input lag depends on the quality of your displays input and if it is controller related the software for that controller and/or timing related settings.

    Plus a Titan should not have frame issues either with low quality AA + transparency.

    As for stable and equal fps... it really depends on how much the card has to render.
    If you only throw things at it that are fast to render, sure, you will have stable fps, but as soon as you got a lot to render pr. frame and/or rendering gets complicated fps will fluctuate.
     
  3. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I think there are some confushed people in this thread as we seem to be discussing 2 different things. OP do u wanna know about input (mouse lag) or frame latency (stuttering)?

    And there are no stupid questions that's why this forum is here, people helping people...
     
  4. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    I think the OP formulated his question with incorrect terms.
    What he really asks is if 4xMSAA + TSAA can cause drops in fps, which it can if there is a lot to render already.

    It might help to get a small list and according min/max fps upon the games in question..
     

  5. Fabulist

    Fabulist Member

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    I can take the first answer as granted, which is probably correct but I was very interested to see what others think about this, and maybe even there is some kind of technical proof about it.

    Well I thought the question was simplistic enough; yes input lag would be the question. Not caused from low framerates, or framerate fluctuations rather whether the AA & AA transparency technologies themselves, regardless of FPS (assume 120 FPS with AA off / on), are liable to create a certain amount of delay similar to the delay Vsync creates.

    No.

    So lets assume we have the same amount of FPS (e.g. 300 / 125 / 120) regardless of whether we use Antialiasing, Transparencies, both or none.

    Would enabling MSAA 4x in a game create any kind of input lag?

    The question applies to the AA technology itself. I am not asking whether if I Enable AA = Less Frames Per Second = Input Lag if Below Acceptable Levels.

    Assume you have any imaginable framerate, and does not change at all if you enable AA. Would MSAA (or any other AA) or / and Supersampling create any kind of input lag like when you enable Vsync?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  6. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    No, not that would be perceivable (like when vsync is on), unless you drop to like 20fps but then it's gonna lag anyway.
    The lower the fps the longer they are taking to render

    Hell, 90% of people didn't know about frame latency till Scott Watson @ TechReport used Fcat to measure fps, then framePACING was discovered to cause stutter with Crossfire systems.

    Suddenly every 2nd AMD owner (newbies mainly), jumped on the AMD framepacing/time wagon crying "onoes I have frame latency issues. Is it gonna be fixed in the next driver release?" even though they had/have no idea what it is just heard about it or read about it and it isn't an issue with single GPU.

    There are 2 things going on here, frame latency which has been addressed already by AMD and that book is now closed, and frame PACING which is when AFR is enabled and frames aren't rendered at a steady pace by each GPU.

    It's really only noticeable on CF systems as a stuttering, and yes it can be noticeable.....


    Not even a problem with Nvidia.





    Disable Vsync keep fps around 60 or more and and u should be fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  7. MrBonk

    MrBonk Guest

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    This.:)
     
  8. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    ^"Perceived" sounds a lot like "placebo".....
     
  9. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Guest

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    Only they have very different meanings.
     
  10. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I'm not about to pull out a thesaurus but for the sake of argument and this thread they are the same.
     

  11. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Guest

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    Not really. SSAO, higher res textures, or any other setting that hinders performance can create input lag if it makes your FPS dip low enough. The way it's being said makes it sound like it's unique to AA which is misleading, but not wrong.
     
  12. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    AA dont cause input lag, what will cause it is if the cpu/gpu cant keep stable and decent framerates. this is all debateable you are blue in the face, what one person see as stable and decent and no input lag another person will see as it not stable and not decent and cause input lag.

    everyone perceives things different.
     
  13. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    How low? 10fps? I think by the time the fps get that low input lag is not going to be a concern.....sheesh.

    You could cap Skyrim at 45fps and not notice any lag providing vsync is off. I know cause that's how I run Fallout New Vegas.

    Tsunami is right and Mineria...it's stupid debating about it because it will never end.

    And regarding Placebo vs Perceive; one is cause the other is effect, however neither of them are real, they are imagined.

    Many users started to perceive lag after reading about it - placebo.
     
  14. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    yah you would only get perceived input lag using VSync and framerates lower than your refresh rate. Granted usually it's the change in framerate that tips you off to input lag.

    I ran Skyrim for example at 30fps when I forced 4x SGSSAA with a ton of texture mods. I didn't have any noticeable input lag as i capped it to 30fps and it held 30fps without dropping any lower. The only time i personally notice input lag is if I'm gaming at 60fps then suddenly it drops to a lower framerate.
     
  15. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Guest

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    I could be wrong in thinking that is what they mean. It's the only thing that makes sense.

    Also, Skyrim at 30fps does feel nice. But it heavily increases loading times for whatever reason. I have new vegas and FO3 heavily modded and they run at 60 fps just fine.
     

  16. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Well it depends, it can translate in picture lag which can affect your aiming..

    no TrAA vs 4xSS TrAA will have some difference, but not much though. We are talking about 0ms vs 2-5ms max. Its gets lower on stronger gpu.


    I know Bf3 no aa vs 4xaa adds ~ 4-5ms frame lag and this can translate into yeah similar effect like by input lag.
     
  17. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Let the debating to you blue in the face go on.
     
  18. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I see it now with my intel 4600gpu @ COD5 waw, i feel a lot of input lag because I get crappy 35-45fps. But in reality its gpu making lag which affects my input reaction so its kinda like input lag in a way.
    lol I won that time xD, but it was very tough like I had very bad mouse setting with to much mouse smoothing & 8 frames to render ahead.

    And since TrAA adds more ms to rendering it can affect it in such way, but not on a GK110, ok maybe in Crysis3 :grin:


    Anyway it all depends to how you want it to be called, either as input lag or as picture lag, both will affect you reaction time a little. :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  19. Mda400

    Mda400 Maha Guru

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    Antialiasing or any graphical effect may cause "frame lag" but not "input lag" and I think that's what users like Terepin were trying to explain.

    Frame Lag is to software as input lag is to hardware. Frame lag is caused by effects in software delaying processing for more work to be done by the graphics adapter.

    Input delay is dependent on the hardware itself and in this case, it would be the display, keyboard and mouse, and computer as a whole. The display (or a passthrough device in the video chain/HDMI receiver) is most commonly what produces input delay because it is usually contains the slowest processor out of one's entire setup. CRT/analog is a different system in itself since memory is not a factor with its electronic signaling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  20. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    When people say "input lag", they mean the delay between input and corresponding screen update. Frame lag causes input lag.
     

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