AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013.

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Pill Monster, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    heres prime, again at stock
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    ill get to oc later
     
  2. Taint3dBulge

    Taint3dBulge Maha Guru

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    Nice. One thing id like to know forsure is how many of these synthetic bench marks are biased to "intel" and are more coded for there architecture?

    I mean its been known that some benches are coded so amd doesnt run as well on them.

    FTC accuses Intel of rigging SysMark, Cinebench and TPC benchmarks
    Intel received another drop of bomb in its legal front yard. Now, it's the United States of America versus Intel Corporation. The Intel-AMD settlement was a sweet deal for both AMD and Intel. AMD got some money and the freedom to have10 Fabs built with Arabian gold. Intel saves $16 billion in treble damages. Time is more important for AMD.

    Now. the FTC took the charge against the mighty Intel. One of the accusation that U.S. is making is the following:

    58. For example, in response to AMD introduction of its Opteron CPU for servers in 2003, Intel
    became concerned about the competitive threat posed by Opteron processors. Intel then designed its compiler and libraries in or about 2003 to generate software that runs slower on non-Intel x86 CPUs, such as Opteron. This decrease in the efficiency of Opteron and other non-Intel x86 CPUs harmed competition in the relevant CPU markets.

    59. To the public, OEMs, ISVs, and benchmarking organizations, the slower performance of non-Intel CPUs on Intel-compiled software applications appeared to be caused by the non-Intel CPUs rather than the Intel software. Intel failed to disclose the effects of the changes it made to its software in or about 2003 and later to its customers or the public. Intel also disseminated false or misleading documentation about its compiler and libraries. Intel represented to ISVs, OEMs, benchmarking organizations, and the public that programs inherently performed better on Intel CPUs than on competing CPUs. In truth and in fact, many differences were due largely or entirely to the Intel software. Intel’s misleading or false statements and omissions about the performance of its software were material to ISVs, OEMs, benchmarking organizations, and the public in their purchase or use of CPUs. Therefore, Intel’s representations that programs inherently performed better on Intel CPUs than on competing CPUs were, and are, false or misleading. Intel’s failure to disclose that the differences were due largely to the Intel software, in light of the representations made, was, and is, a deceptive practice. Moreover, those misrepresentations and omissions were likely to harm the reputation of other x86 CPUs companies, and harmed competition.

    60. Some ISVs requested information from Intel concerning the apparent variation in performance of identical software run on Intel and non-Intel CPUs. In response to such requests, on numerous occasions, Intel misrepresented, expressly or by implication, the source of the problem and whether it could be solved.

    61. Intel’s software design changes slowed the performance of non-Intel x86 CPUs and had no
    sufficiently justifiable technological benefit. Intel’s deceptive conduct deprived consumers of an
    informed choice between Intel chips and rival chips, and between Intel software and rival software, and raised rivals’ costs of competing in the relevant CPU markets. The loss of performance caused by the Intel compiler and libraries also directly harmed consumers that used non-Intel x86 CPUs.

    64. Several benchmarking organizations adopted benchmarks that measured performance of CPUs running software programs compiled using the Intel compiler or libraries. Intel’s deception affected among others, the Business Applications Performance Corporation (“BAPCo”), Cinebench, and TPC benchmarks.

    67. Intel publicized the results of the benchmarking to promote sales of products containing its
    x86 CPUs even though it knew the benchmarks were misleading. For example: ...

    One of the relief the FTC is seeking is to order Intel to provide non-Defective compilers to its customers and pay all the cost caused by the deliberate degradation of AMD CPU performance.

    I know Intel is faster per core and yada yada yada, yes it is a faster chip.. But if we had benches that were coded just for amd then what? For me, i love my chip it does everything I want it to and never have had a problem. It never gets too hot even though it does use alittle more power then intel.. But then again I only have my pc on when i use it so power isnt a concern.. Any other benches you guys wanna look at?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  3. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    Where did you get that nonsense source? It looks like it was run through Google translate....

    Also, Intel chips aren't getting some magical advantage through coding cheats. AMD is licensed to use the exact same instructions, and they're both x86 architectures. Come on now.

    And sorry to burst your bubble there, but I wouldn't call 100W more "a little bit higher power usage".

    Nobody is attacking your choice of CPU, it's just a matter of acknowledging the flaws instead of making up excuses for them.
     
  4. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    The best example is how Tablets killed off netbooks almost overnight.

    Most businesses are starting to transition to laptops and ultrabooks. Why? Because this lets the employee take his work with him. Now the company can squeeze out extra work (and usually higher quality) when the employee is sitting in a cafe working on his laptop, etc. A lot of places are also taking this a step further and buying iPad's, etc, for their employees.

    I didn't say the desktops are dead today, but they are a dead end to put any long term investment in. Most of the products that desktops are going to be receiving in the future will be versions of products targeted towards servers or mobile.

    In my opinion, desktops are going to turn from a mainstream platform into a limited enthusiast platform in the near future.
     

  5. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Don't believe me, look at which GPU manufacturer dominates the top spots:
    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

    I just gave a family member (~15 years old) a "gaming computer", which consists of a Core 2 Duo and a 9400 GT 1GB. And you know what, he couldn't be happier. He never once went into the graphics settings and doesn't know what to do if he gets there, yet this plays all the game he likes at lower resolutions. Welcome to the majority of gamers here.

    People on this forum have to understand that they are the 0.1% minority amongst PC users, even amongst gamers. Most people just download a game, turn it on and play. They don't change a whole bunch of settings to get super fast FPS, they don't care. Which is why Nvidia's "Experience" is such a brilliant move on their part, and is very overdue.

    With the ability soon to offload much of the GPU horsepower to the cloud (Nvidia Grid, etc), and with plenty of CPU horsepower to be found even in the likes of the Surface Pro; this reality is racing towards us faster and faster.

    And the average joe that wants cutting edge graphics goes for a console anyways. It's simple, it works and he can even play with friends on the sofa. There is no need to worry about incompatible drivers, expensive hardware that needs to be upgraded, etc.
     
  6. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    One issue is that at 5ghz and 1.5v+ youre pulling 300 watts from CPU alone, and it still comes short of a stock i7.. meh. i reckon that 205 watts will go through money saved in a few months.
     
  7. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    And like I said, the mistakes are not limited to AMD.

    Intel also completely missed the smartphone market for four-five critical years. They are finally releasing a competitive chip (Silvermont) but the damage has been done.

    If I was a stockholder of Intel and saw this, I would be furious. Luckily they excelled in all the other areas they targeted which eases some of the pain.
     
  8. deltatux

    deltatux Guest

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    That's all based on which industry you're working in, I still see a lot of companies still rather order desktops and only order laptops for executives or managerial staff while lower ranking staff would stick to desktops instead. Desktops are still seen as the reliable workhorse in the business world. I don't see them replaced in the next 15-20 years unless there's something revolutionary that you can do exactly like you can with a desktop without any sort of compromise and that it would be financial feasible that can be shared between different users on the same desk or would be easily maintained by IT teams (like being able to swap parts and etc).

    Netbooks always was geared towards a niche market and the tablet instantly replaced it because it literally duplicated what the netbook can do and more. That is a rather poor example since netbooks weren't that popular nor that important in the computer industry as a whole in the first place.

    deltatux
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  9. Taint3dBulge

    Taint3dBulge Maha Guru

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    Ill have to find the article, But if i left pc on 247 over the corse of a year it would only cost $20 more to run my system over an intel which isnt going to break my bank, not by a long shot. lol

    Now we could look at how hot intel chips get 80c? compaired to ~60c and to cool that room you need more air conditioning and possibly a fan running to push cooler air in that room.... So how much more would that cost..
     
  10. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    Poor choice of stats. If you actually looked at the overall statistics, only 10% of Steam users are on Intel solutions, which isn't surprising at all considering Steam's huge library of integrated friendly titles.

    Also, you're missing the fact that Nvidia's Grid is just wishful thinking given the state of the Internet today. You're trying to argue two points. The first one is that desktops are a declining market, which is true as the average user prefers to have their device on the go. This is only natural. The second thing you're arguing however, is that desktops suddenly have no place anymore except for niche applications which is not even close to being the case. Maybe in 15 years. The technologies that are being researched to create this service based computing that you're speaking of are well a ways off, and no mobile device as of yet can even get close to performing to a level it would need to for complete dominance over desktops.

    Tl;dr desktops for the average home users are on the way out. That doesn't mean at all that focus on the market as a whole is simply evaporating and that in only a few years we'll be using ARM CPU's and whatever Intel matches it with because nothing else is being sold.
     

  11. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    Also, this is just misinformation lol. AMD CPU's for a while now have never reported their temperatures accurately. They only report TCASE instead of distance to TJ max. On an Intel chip, you see close to the actual internal temperature of the CPU. On AMD's chips, you just see a crappy estimation. Ever wondered why the idle temps are so low? Like 15C? yeah, that's because the crappy thermistor isn't even calibrated to report correctly if the temp is less than 40C. So in the future, add about 10-15C onto your supposed core or package temp, and that's what you're actually getting.

    Whenever I owned AMD this just bugged the crap out of me.
     
  12. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I was gonna post this last night but I went to bed instead. I think aruging about desktops is sorta pointless because neither AMD nor Intel design chips for desktop. They design server CPU's as this is the highest margin products they make. They then bin them differently or cut them down in manufacturing for desktops and then modify them with some R&D (not as much as went into designing the core design) to get them to scale to lower power and heat for laptops and other mobile devices.

    The only exception has been Atom and Bobcat (and predecessor) where each company has designed a lower power design from the bottom up.

    Furthermore, when using this design philosophy (Haswell and APUs change it slightly) its not that desktops aren't important, its that whatever you make for Servers or Laptop markets will work for the desktop with the right binning and clock speed changes. Desktop is a nice bit of extra money but its not something either company make or brakes the bank on. Servers have higher margins and laptops have greater volume. That is where the research and design money goes.
     
  13. Taint3dBulge

    Taint3dBulge Maha Guru

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    From what iv read this problem doesnt exist or isnt as bad as it was with the latest whmonitor.

    My Idle temps are around 37c Which in bios they are the same for bios temps..
     
  14. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Guest

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    Ice is right though.

    red is what's reported
    blue is actual


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Del_Boy

    Del_Boy Banned

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    I clicked on Hilbert's front page review to leave a reply and it redirects to here, but oh look its you again taking apart every other post you can, some advise, crawl back under your bridge before you de-rail this thread aswell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013

  16. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    You're looking at CPU socket temp which is more accurate by far, but it's still not actually reporting internal temperatures.
     
  17. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Guest

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    I still don't understand why it has taken AMD so long to put proper temp sensors on the CPU
     
  18. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

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    I guess they just don't want to pay the extra dollar or whatever it is for an actual thermometer inside the die, or there's no room or something. Who knows.
     
  19. Taint3dBulge

    Taint3dBulge Maha Guru

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    Ya i dont pay attention to the Per core temp.. I just watch the cpu temp.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Guest

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    this is not the front page review , Hilbert did not start this thread, I`d call you the douche but I got some class and will refrain from it
     

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