Tweaks to speed up Re-boot time?

Discussion in 'SSD and HDD storage' started by Pigchild, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,814
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    -
    So go ahead and post your results then like the previous guy mentioned.

    Otherwise you are just giving out bad advice that can damage people's computers.

    What's ironic is that you talk about "1TB of writes a dayfor 5 years", but neglect to mention that it only works with the god damn wear leveling which defragging ruins/bypasses.. MLC is only good for around 3,000 P/E cycles or less, TLC (such as the Samsung 840) is only good for 1,000 P/E cycles or less. So yes, you are significantly reducing the lifespan (and perhaps the performance thereby) by Defragging and bypassing the wear leveling.

    Furthermore, as a logic exercise, I want you to explain to me how defragging an SSD can ever possibly boost it's performance. The whole point of defragging on an HDD were the seeks times (around 4-15ms), but on an SSD they are nearly inexistant (0.1ms), so how could it ever benefit the SSD then?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  2. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

    Messages:
    10,693
    Likes Received:
    79
    GPU:
    3070Ti FE
    I already explained this before, there's a small overhead when files are fragmented on any type of drive because the file system has to do a bit of extra work.
     
  3. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,814
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    -
    And I would love to read the source of this information.
     
  4. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,630
    Likes Received:
    1,121
    GPU:
    4090 FE H20
    Dude there is no hope for you. GOOGLE consolidate vs defrag. They are not the same. According to your links, windows does NOT choose where files are going, so SSD Controller would still be wear leveling and putting files where it wants to. So which is it? What youre posting here and what youre saying is contradicting eachother.

    Let me ask you this, is .06ms better than .1ms? Is that an improvement? Yes it is. Thats not where i said the better performance came from either. I said you get more consistent Read/Writes. Writes do get a small increase from CONSOLIDATING, not defragging. Defragmenting alone does absolutely nothing for SSDs.

    Get back to me when youve done your research. BTW, testing stuff yourself is what gets you places in life, not googling for info and taking it as hard facts.
     

  5. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,814
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    -
    You don't seem to understand, I'm not the one making outlandish claims, the burden of proof is on you. In other words, I have posted facts that come straight from the horse's mouth; I don't have to prove anything, you do.

    Show me verifiable proof, or is it so hard to so?
     
  6. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,630
    Likes Received:
    1,121
    GPU:
    4090 FE H20
    You are saying one thing and are posting links that say different things. Im afraid you dont even know what you think you know. I already said i could care less what you think is true or not. Besides, my OS is already clean, all my files are together, so to prove my "claim" i would a) reinstall windows, aint happening, or b) wait many months for my files to fragment.

    Take your pick. Did you even look at that link i posted? The number 1 paid defrag software recommends do run free space consolidation, Im guessing youre selectively ignoring that. Youre just another commoner who needs stuff to read online and takes it as a fact.

    btw im sure even if i did run some tests you would be like "well uhm im sure that you uhm disabled something to make it go faster" lolol
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  7. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,814
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    -
    Then until you show some proof or evidence of the fact, don't go telling people on this forum that it is fine do perform a procedure that will shorten the life of their hardware (with no recorded benefit) without telling them of the risks involved.

    If you feel so sure of your findings, then go ahead and inform the SSD manufacturers like Crucial, OCZ, etc, and have them change their FAQ. I'm sure that they will love to learn from your wisdom in these matters.
     
  8. IcE

    IcE Don Snow

    Messages:
    10,693
    Likes Received:
    79
    GPU:
    3070Ti FE
    And I have to provide a source because...? It's not like I'm telling you something outlandish here. Think about it. If a file is in more than one place, there is extra work to be done to look it up in both locations. Just do some reading up on how the NTFS file system works, it's interesting reading anyway.

    Now you're just being a drama queen. He wasn't even advocating what he does, he just said that it's fine to do (which is true), and that he notices a difference. There aren't any "risks" to defragging let alone a consolidation. Maybe if you tried to defrag every day, I could see a meaningful loss of lifespan. But something like this isn't any different to driving your car hard every once in a while. When you use things, they wear. It's a fact of life.
     
  9. Pyro the Dragun

    Pyro the Dragun Master Guru

    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Geforce GT 555M
    OK, so I just spent the better part of an hour digging into this.

    It seems that occasional free space consolidation on SSDs CAN help write speeds (albeit slightly, and again CAN... not a definitive YES or ALWAYS).

    And lets make this clear: WRITE speeds, not READ speeds. I still maintain that read speeds and seek times are effectively constant no matter how fragmented/unconsolidated data is on an SSD, and I have yet to find anything proving otherwise.

    Some reading for those who care:
    Uno
    Dos
    Three
    A old guide for Vertex 1 drives showing the free space consolidation is a thing.
    An old thread regarding Diskeeper Hyperfast (basically Diskeeper's implementation of free space consolidation).


    However... a common concern was that your SSD needs to be explicitly supported by whatever software you're using to consolidate. That is: PerfectDisk or Diskeeper needs to talk directly to your SSD's controller, or else the software will simply be trying to move data around the virtual block system it sees while the SSD controller will be randomly throwing data around using its normal wear-leveling algorithm. And in Agent's case PerfectDisk is also having to talk through a RAID controller. So I guess the jury is still out regarding this specifically.

    I'll admit I was partially wrong about free space consolidation earlier, my apologies. Agent isn't wrong or talking bullsh*t, just a bit boorish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013

Share This Page